How many '65's were built?

[SKWIKY67]

Anybody know how many '65 911's were built? Spec book lists 3300 or so but I was under the
impression some of these were actually '66 MY cars. Any accurate info on last actual '65 or 1st '66
and what date in '65 did they stop building '65's and start '66's?

Thanks, Dave

[preS]

Dave

This has been discussed a few times. There should be a number of threads about it. One thread has something like "transition" and "66" in the header.

Roughly: up to 3021XX MY 65, after that till 3032XX build in 65 but MY 66. But we really don't know if there really is something like a MY65 or MY66, so far no one on this list has posted Porsche factory information as a proof. A lot of changes just phased in but around 3021XX (in July / August '65) the factory summer break took place and a couple of changes seemed to have been introduced at the same time (paint code, dash).

BTW say hi to your son Dan. A few years ago I met him and I liked the way he towed the 911 (very careful to avoid any damage).

Richard

[Bobs 67S]

Hi Dave.

look closely at the category for that 3300 car count - it is given as "Year of Manufacture" which is the calendar year rather than by model year.

Each years model started in August to get them into the pipeline and into the dealer so they would be available prior to a January calendar change. Each "calendar year" or "year of manufacture" - has two "Model years" including the current and the next.

For the previous 17 years Porsche gave the info by models in each given year - but not the 911 in 1965. A one year only anomaly.


---#302 104 mfg 30 July 1965 last car of month (last day before 1965 factory holidays)
---#302 114 mfg 16 Aug 1965 (first day after 1965 factory holidays)
Source: Porsche Archive via author Tobias Aichele

---”Porsche...Germany...confirmed...they have...documentation
....new model 911/912 to stop...Model/Year by month.. start...by Vin#
beginning July 1st of 1965 ...consider all cars manufactured from that
date thru Dec 31 1965 to be 1966 model year vehicles”
Source: Porsche Cars North America, (thank you to Jon Paul Phillips for posting this info) 2-13-2009
(Edit for brevity)

Little white "Technical Specifications" pub #4203.20 first English Edition 31 December 1967. Under Year of Mfg: it says: 1965 from Jan to Jun. 1966 from Jul to Dec.

This is the first time Porsche changed model year a month early, for July rather than August.

The 356 was still in major production (with record sales) the 911 was the start up being assembled at about 300 cars per month. The factory changed from 1965 to 1966 starting a month earlier than car number 3021xx (the last cars from July 1965). The ending car number could be as low as 301800 or as high as 302100. (Cars were not made in sequential of numerical order and can be up to 100-200+ numbers out of sequence).

It is accepted that the paint code change from 64xx to 66xx is indication that the factory intended the car model year to change. One of the earliest cars to have the 6606 paint code is car 301945. (Halfway between 301800 and 302100).

There is no single ending/begining car number that can be shown to show this change.
Around car number 302 000 is becoming the accepted "range" for the model year change from a 1965 to a 1966 model.

The paint code is the final arbitrator as to the factory intent.


The easy answer is about 302 000 (with a ton of footnotes)....

[Rennman]

If you order a COA for any car built in 65 it will state on the COA 1965 911. Porsche sees them all as 65s!

Don

[Bobs 67S]

Back in 1965/1966 the state DOT's had an agreement to use a single source information for registration of imported cars. The publication printed in Texas listed Porsche as:

1965 356, 4 cylinder
1966 911, 6 cylinder
1966 912, 4 cylinder

If the car was a 6 cylinder it was not eligible to be registered as a 1965.

Not until years later I was able to petition my local state with documentation including it's Kardex, a Stoddard publication, a DMV phone interview with a Stoddard's employee and multiple chassis inspections by the DMV to change the cars registration from 1966 to model 1965.

Most if not all early Porsche 911 have been registered as 1966. And this Porsche memo confirms this practice.

Porsche Sales Department Circular Letter
February 2, 1965

Circular Letter USA 65/5

Model Designation 911

Gentlemen:

The first 911's will be registered in your territory
during March of this year. Following the example of
the introduction of the Ford 'Mustang' there is a
possibility to register these cars already as 1966 models.

Under these circumstances the factory authorizes you
to classify all 911's starting with chassis no. 300,001
as 66 models.

E. Hirsch, L.R.Schmidt

Boy does this trigger the trivia factor - big time....

[Allen Henderson]

Bob,

VERY interesting information! Do you have other Sales Circulars / Rundscribien? We are looking for #13 for 1966. You apparently have #5 for 1965. Looks to be exactly the kind of information we are looking for regarding 1967 Modell "deLuxe". Not to hijack this thread but please see this one.

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ht=1967+deluxe

And I agree 100% btw with your statement Bob "The easy answer is about 302 000 (with a ton of footnotes).... " for the start of 1966 MY, unquestionably an excellent nominal date for the change.! And the last '66 I know of is 304955. So, around 3,000 1966 MY cars were built +/-.

Thanks! And thanks to my good friend Richard (304678) who let me know about this thread.


-Allen-

[preS]

Back in 1965/1966 the state DOT's had an agreement to use a single source information for registration of imported cars. The publication printed in Texas listed Porsche as:

1965 356, 4 cylinder
1966 911, 6 cylinder
1966 912, 4 cylinder

If the car was a 6 cylinder it was not eligible to be registered as a 1965.

Not until years later I was able to petition my local state with documentation including it's Kardex, a Stoddard publication, a DMV phone interview with a Stoddard's employee and multiple chassis inspections by the DMV to change the cars registration from 1966 to model 1965.

Most if not all early Porsche 911 have been registered as 1966. And this Porsche memo confirms this practice.

Porsche Sales Department Circular Letter
February 2, 1965

Circular Letter USA 65/5

Model Designation 911

Gentlemen:

The first 911's will be registered in your territory
during March of this year. Following the example of
the introduction of the Ford 'Mustang' there is a
possibility to register these cars already as 1966 models.

Under these circumstances the factory authorizes you
to classify all 911's starting with chassis no. 300,001
as 66 models.

E. Hirsch, L.R.Schmidt

Boy does this trigger the trivia factor - big time....

Bob thank you for this kind of information. That is what I meant w/ factory information (v.s. books who do not publish this kind of proof when they claim something).

If the factory on February 2nd 1965 writes that from 300001 all models are classified as '66' models, were there ever '65' models? What was the advantage for Porsche to call them '66' models from the start on, they would have missed that sales boost from the 'new' model introduction. Second, can it be interpreted that Porsche started selling 911's to the US in February and that the first US delivered / registered 911 was therefore in the 300400-300500 Vin number range? Do we know that VIN? (Jerry Seinfeld are you reading? Might be a nice addition for your collection .. :-) )

Richard

[Allen Henderson]

Bob thank you for this kind of information. That is what I meant w/ factory information (v.s. books who do not publish this kind of proof when they claim something).

If the factory on February 2nd 1965 writes that from 300001 all models are classified as '66' models, were there ever '65' models? What was the advantage for Porsche to call them '66' models from the start on, they would have missed that sales boost from the 'new' model introduction. Second, can it be interpreted that Porsche started selling 911's to the US in February and that the first US delivered / registered 911 was therefore in the 300400-300500 Vin number range? Do we know that VIN? (Jerry Seinfeld are you reading? Might be a nice addition for your collection .. :-) )

Richard

Interesting point Richard and I'm pretty sure that there were pre-300400 911s imported into the U.S. as new cars sold here. I don't recall however, the winner of the contest Porsche held for such a car. I'm aware of several pre-300400 cars here but am not sure if they were originally sold here? Thanks.

-Allen-

[preS]

Interesting point Richard and I'm pretty sure that there were pre-300400 911s imported into the U.S. as new cars sold here. I don't recall however, the winner of the contest Porsche held for such a car. I'm aware of several pre-300400 cars here but am not sure if they were originally sold here? Thanks.

-Allen-

Allen the car from the Porsche contest was much later, like after 301XXX (the blue 911).

I have started a separate thread re. the first and oldest known US delivered 911.

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...122#post588122

Henk Baars has an April 2nd 1965 car, 300824. Since it was kept by PC Burlingame for over a year I tend to believe that it was one of the first US delivered 911 for them.

Richard

[SKWIKY67]

Richard,

Excellent question - If the factory on February 2nd 1965 writes that from 300001 all models are classified as '66' models,
were there ever '65' models? No telling what their logic was there. Possibly something related to DOT? I would think that
when Porsche started using 66 as first 2 digits in the paint code that these cars were officially 66 models and the cars in
between these and the 64 prototypes are all 65 models. Maybe that's too logical but would make sense. Would be
interesting to find last known VIN with a 64 in paint code and first one with a 66.

I said hi to Dan for you but he was moving a lot of cars back then and didn't remember which one was yours. What color
and year was it and I'll run it by him again? I'm sure he'll remember with some more info as he's been around P-cars since
an infant. He quit doing that about a year ago because it just didn't pay enough for all the risks associated with moving
vehicles for people coupled with the cost of fuel and insurance. Presently he's close to graduating from the Orange County
Police Academy. Actual day of graduation is 9-11. How's that for a coincidence? :-)

Dave