Looking for good seat belt ideas for my 67 911S

[endo911rs]

Not that I'm ready to bolt in seat belts yet, but seeing as how I have a bare metal chassis, I should at least start thinking about it! ;-)

So what are you running in your cars? I am not restoring to stock and the interior will be modified in a tasteful "gentlemans cruiser" sort of way. I am not a big fan of the original chrome latches that look like they came out of an airplane seat...and I don't want to go big/racey with a Simpson style latch/leather pad. Would it be sac religious to use the later style "red lever" belts?

Lets see some photos and ideas....

[Jim Breazeale]

Since you have a "bare metal" chassis. I would weld in some captive nuts on the B pillar like a LWB car. I would also weld in nuts to attach an inertia reel like all LWB cars, as well. It is the perfect time in your restoration to do that.You would then be able to install later interia reel belts. Inertia reel belts are about as "gentlemanly" as you can get. I would be more than happy to discuss this with you over the phone.

Regards

Jim
www.easypor.com

[304065]

Concours judges don't see safety equipment, so as long as your mods are executed in a tasteful way I don't think it will be an issue, at least I'm counting on that proposition holding when the clock starts!

On '065 which was as bare metal as it gets, we welded in some nut plates from Schroth to take modern belts. We put them in the same location that the factory did in 1968. Also put some under the engine sound pad, both in the center (for harness) and outboard (for shoulder harness in rear seats). These are invisible with an uncut rear parcel shelf, and the lap belt mounts hide behind the vinyl collar on the seat bottom cushion.

We also drilled and tapped a piece of solid bar stock for the B-pillar for a 7/16-20 screw, and welded that in flush. If you dissect the B-pillar from a "car that didn't make it" you will see many additional folds of metal that the factory used for reinforcement-- maybe Jim can help us out with a photo.

On the front it's much harder. The tombstone seats are so wide that there is basically no room whatsoever outboard of the seat-- the big chrome recliners slide by with very little clearance from the longitudinal. The factory "suicide" mounts are designed to position the belt hooks well above the recliner-- they are basically in the only location that works. Once you observe this relationship, it's easy to see why the Factory went to L-shaped seatbelt anchors on the seats themselves with the LWB cars.

The trouble with adapting the LWB solution is this-- the SWB seats have the tracks riveted to the seat bottom pan itself. The LWB track is removable, and is bolted to the seat pan, allowing the L-shaped bracket to sandwich in between. You can't do this easily on an SWB seat pan. So you would have to use LWB seat bottoms, which are different. Which would probably work fine, except for the following. . .

OK, now you're using an LWB seat bottom for safety. Except that you now have a better seatbelt mount on a car without a headrest. OK, maybe some cars have the optional headrests, mine doesn't. So why not use the whole LWB seat, with integral headrest?

Pretty soon you end up sourcing LWB seats and having THEM reupholstered. Ol' Tony Garcia is sending you his Christmas card forever. Now you're really in a pickle, because for a little more dough you could have a pair of Vintage Seats 911R copies-- with proper seat belt brackets welded to the sliders, like Ed Mayo did. Integral headrests and a nice vintage touch. You have to remove the LWB seats for show anyway, right?

And down, down, down the slippery slope we go. (I am reminded of the aphorism of Robert Bork, who once said, probably aprocryphally: "Lawyers live on a slippery slope: we are not expected to ski it to the bottom.")

[endo911rs]

I don't know anything about slippery slopes....



The plan is to go with 911R type seats which puts me into a harness of some sort...4 point I would assume.

Obviously the car is as "bare metal" as it can possibly get so I can weld as many seat belt anchors as I want. So the best option is to weld in lower mounts for the lap belts so they are not so high? Can I "Y' the shoulder straps to one central mount on the parcel shelf?

[304065]

Slippery slope indeed. What a great photo, pristine steel floating above a Dickensian cesspool of toxic sludge. Kinda like parking in my old neighborhood.

What I was thinking of doing, and I'm not an engineer, is follow precisely what the factory did with the 74+ cars with the narrower seats. They welded receivers into the longitudinals outboard, and welded a pair of fins inboard that the receivers bolted to. All with appropriate bracing behind.

I didn't do this, however, because of the tombstone seats and their clearance issues-- the recliner would get scratched on the outboard mount. I probably should have.

In terms of the parcel shelf, it's pretty thin sheet metal, so some additional support is probably not a bad idea to ensure that whatever nut doesn't rip clean out of the panel in a crash.

All this said, there's a substantial risk of death, personal injury and property damage and no solution is perfect (how's that for a disclaimer!)

One thing I didn't do, that I let Damon talk me out of, was weld in the cast steel mounting plates for a factory rollbar. One of our ingenious cousins from UK has reproduced the factory originals. The factory rollbar doesn't have a harness bar across the shoulders, however. . . . here we go down the slippery slope again. If I had it to do over again . . .

It's said that the 935/78 began life as an SWB with a pencil-eraser sized rust spot-- then the modifications began.

[Bobs 67S]

These are the stock factory 3 point seat belts - 1964-1965. I've re-webbed them. The lap belt ends are floor mounted just to the rear of the seat, and tuck under the rear floor mats. (The stock lap belt mounts moved with the install of the roll bar mounts). The belts work very well with the 911R seat (from TRE). And, they don't interfere with the fore-aft of the adjustable seat slides. (They replaced racing 3" with the buckle latch...old habit...)

They are period correct hardware (with black re-webbing rather than the grey) and actually function quite well. I've got about 8K miles since they were installed and am very happy with them.

As an alternative - some of the best retractable seat belts are from the E30 BMW from the late 1980's - trim in scale and very easy to use - mounting would have to be custom to fit the 911 B post mount. Take a look you might like 'um.

[Mr9146]

Bob, I'd really appreciate a close-up shot of the latch/receiver and buckle. Our '66 came with these belts and I'm going to have to either a)find a set or b)recreate them.

Detail shots would be greatly appreciated.

[Bobs 67S]

Unrestored they look like this:

[Mr9146]

Thanks! They're not exactly as I thought they'd be.

[sithot]

This is a good article regarding proper seat belt mounting systems.


http://www.circletrack.com/safety/ct...t/viewall.html