Opinions needed

[denson]

A transmission is shipped to a vendor for a re-build. It had a catostrophic failure and needed new ring and pinion,etc. The transmission comes back to my shop, gets installed and blows up on a 1 mile test drive. My shop drains the oil and finds many shavings. The re-builder claims to not have cleaned the old metal and aluminum shavings from the case and the new ring and pinion (not new, but used and said to be in great shape) must have had a crack and failed.

The re-buider pays shipping back to him and back to my shop, and of course does not bill for the re-re-build, which included another ring and pinion and a new second gear. The question is, should the re-builder be paying my shop for all costs related to this mistake? Those costs are putting the transmission in, taking it out, breaking it down for shipping and for a huge amount of Swepco 301? My answer is yes as it was his error which created the extra costs.

Please let me know your opinion.

Thanks,

John

[chris_seven]

In business terms consequential loss is not normally accepted as part of any contract.

If you buy poor steel from a mill or stockholder, for example, and spend money machining and then find defects the only liability for the supplier will be to replace the steel.

A refusal to accept consequential loss has been part of any contract I have ever negotiated and I would never under normal circumstances accept this type of clause as it can easily become open ended and potentially ruinous.

When you take out significant business loans it is common practice for Banks and Venture Capital Organisations to review a businesses Terms and Conditions and I would expect them to demand a specific paragraph stating that consequantial losses are not accepted.

In general it all to do with the management of risk and how to include this in any contract. Accpeting losses of this nature would mean costs would increase massively and could make some small businesses close down.

Would your Supermarket pay your fuel costs and for your time to return poor products? as this effectively what you are asking your transmission rebuilder to accept.

There was a trend in the European Automotive Industry to make Tier 1 suppliers responsible for fitting the parts that they manufactured but I think that this experiment was quietly given up a while ago.

Unless you have specifically negotiated consequential loss it unlikely that any English court would award these damages but it may be different in the USA.

Some suppliers will give a contribution for 'goodwill' but it is also difficult to ask someone to be responsible for a Third Party Bill that he can't control.

I am sad to say that old statement cavaet emptor is generally used to cover this type of problem but in real terms I feel that your transmission guy has acted reasonably and in good faith. I would be happy with his response.

[blucille]

In a perfect world, yes, I'd say the rebuilder should pay those costs, in the real world, I don't see it as likely that you will be successful in making that happen.

The rebuilder did the right thing, covered the shipping and all the stuff he did, he ended up redoing for $0....if you were doing the install yourself, would you expect him to reimburse you for your time? If instead the rebuilder was geographically close, or you shipped your car to him, and he did the R&R on the gearbox....then I could see him comping that work....but for him to dig into his pockets and come up with cash to reimburse a third party....while we innocently think it should happen, I think it is unlikely.

Maybe you can convince him to supply some parts at reduced rates, (or free) new clutch, or axles/cv joint, for instance, whether you need them or not, your local shop might take them to offset some costs.

Just some thoughts. Looking forward to other input.

[RTincher]

Perhaps different, but a few years ago during the rebuild of my engine, we bought some MFI cams from Webcam. The pulley drive was bolted on, and after assembly and start up my mechanic determined that they had not opened up the oil hole appropriately, causing a significant oil leak such that he had to pull the engine, pull the cam and chamfer the hole (or something similar). Webcam agreed immediately to pay the cost of this rework by my mechanic, who did a lot of business with them.

I think it comes down to good business relationships and quality people, and as mentioned above probably can't be legally enforced.

[Macroni]

Consequences in my world of manufacturing....

We have to pay for everything; ingredient, transportation, downtime, clean up, finished product produced and disposal.

Then we pray they do not fire us for screwwing up.

[RSTarga]

Did you select the vendor? Is this someone who you use often?
It is really hard to believe that a reputable transmission repair shop would pop a ring and pinion in and not take care to check and clean the transmission. Was it Motor Meister?
I'd have a hard time trusting the second rebuild.

[Scotty B]

I agree with David. If this rebuilder failed to clean the case before reinstalling the gearstack that is a poor rebuild, and all that metal WILL get into the new gears and cause failure. Probably not within 1 mile, but not impossible, depending on how much crud was left in there. In that case.... Yes, IMHO he should be covering ALL costs associated with this debacle.

Now; had he done a thorough cleaning of the case and all parts prior to reassembly, I can't say I'd hold him at fault ( assuming he knew what he was doing on the actual build )

[sithot]

Jasper Engines (Transmissions too) will pay to take out a defective unit and re-install the new one while under warranty. I'm good friends with the owner of a shop who uses them and has had to take advantage of the warranty a few times.

Tom

[gsjohnson]

Jasper Engines (Transmissions too) will pay to take out a defective unit and re-install the new one while under warranty. I'm good friends with the owner of a shop who uses them and has had to take advantage of the warranty a few times.

Tom

Tom- that is their stated policy that comes with their warranty. Normally the supplier will only replace the defective product and not pay for related incidentals, such as labor, fuel, hotel, lost wages, etc. etc. etc.

[NorthernThrux]

I think you did pretty well really. Unless a supplier also does the installation, you cannot expect to be reimbursed for any labour. If you buy a part from a car dealer and install it yourself or have your mechanic do it, and that part turns out to be defective, you only get the part replaced. Your time, or your mechanics time don't count. If the dealer did the install, then they cover the labour. Regardless of scenario, for parts or rebuilds, no one reimburses you for your time or any other incidentals.