1972 911s with 911/83 engine value

[Hodijag]

Dear reader,

I would appreciate it if it would be possible to get some insight on the value of a 1972 911s car which seems to have been fitted with a RS type engine very early in it's life.

It is my friend's car and he is looking to sell it, so we are trying to get a feeling for what kind of money could/should be asked for the car.

It is a very tidy silver/black (original white) 911s car with the oelklappe. He has owned this car for many years.
It is rustfree, it appears to be very original and is in overall very good condition, so it would seem like a very sought after top value car.

The problem is that, although the engine number seems to be plausible to the car (we will be requesting a heritage certificate to confirm this) this number is not stamped very nicely and it would therefore appear that this engine number is restamped on an engine not original to the car.

Looking a bit further, we found that the engine casing appears to be correctly factory stamped 911/83 which suggests that this is either a 2.7 RS engine or more likely a 2.7 euro carrera (MFI) engine, an almost mythical 911 engine.

What we thus have a problem with is appreciating what this conversion means for the value of the car.

Also of use would be any info on how we can further determine the exact type of engine (RS or euro carrera) in there without having the original number of the engine.
Maybe we also have to see what gearbox is in the car. Would a euro carrera gearbox be a straight transplant in a 911s or is this complicated and can we assume that it ts only the engine which has been swapped?

My interference in this matter is resulting from the fact that my friend is not willing to spend much time finding a buyer. He has given me a number he wants for the car and I think it could be worth a bit more so I told him I would ask around a bit to see what was possible.

Thank you very much for any insight on this matter.

Kind regards,

Marc

[kitesurfer]

I would say the car is worth slightly more than a non matching numbers "S", in non original build colour.
A lot depends on the exact engine you have which seems a little uncertain if the stamped number has been tampered with.
For top money cars really need to have matching numbers in original paint.
How much does your friend want?

[72targa]

I'd like to know the provenance of the RS engine...and what happened to the original engine...

Pics please!

[Biancaneve]

I would say the car is worth slightly more than a non matching numbers "S", in non original build colour.
A lot depends on the exact engine you have which seems a little uncertain if the stamped number has been tampered with.
For top money cars really need to have matching numbers in original paint.
How much does your friend want?

+1

Can you please post vin and some pics? Thanks.

[fryardds]

Hi Marc,

Maybe I am not understanding your question so I will ask a few of my own. What is the third digit of the engine serial number? What is the casting # on the case? Is it a 5R/7R, 7R/7R, etc.? What is the Bosch part # on the injection pump? There are other #s on the injection that tell you what the casting date of the pump housing is as well as the date the pump was built.

If you have a restamped case you don't have an RS or a Carrera 2.7 engine. Those engines were created at the factory and stamped at the factory with a unique serial number for a certain chassis. A restamped engine is just that, a recreation or forgery of the original engine. Does that make sense?

[91133]

In addition to getting the casting details, pump and distributor details, I think the point about provenance is a very good one. Swapping 'up' to a 911/83 engine is rare at best so it may be that the swap was done early and for a privileged (i.e. close to the factory) owner - that heritage itself may be worth something in the maker…what did McQueen's car sell for again? ;-)

[210bhp]

Are there any 'fins' on the bottom of the engine case running front to back or is it flat?

Regards
Mike

[Hodijag]

Thank you for the suggestions.

I did not know the pump had a casting date on it's side. First thing to do seems to be to check over the pump and see whether it is indeed a 019 pump and what casting date is on there.
Are there any distributor specifics to look for?
I had a quick look under the car this morning. I see no fins on the bottom of the case.

I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks,

Marc

[Hodijag]

Hello all,

We went to have a closer look at the car again and found the pump number to be 013, so it appears the original 2.4S pump is in place.
My friend is convinced that the engine is the original 2.4S engine with only the case transplanted to a 911/83 casing. He says someone told him the 2.7 pistons have a larger fin spacing, so that the ones he has are 2.4.

The casing is most definitely 911/83. It is a 7R casing.
I am a bit surprised. Is it possible to refit a 911/83 casing to a 2.4S engine, in other words can you fit 2.4 pistons to a 2.7 911/83 casing?

Thanks for any further info.

Kind regards,

Marc

[blue72s]

Hello all,

We went to have a closer look at the car again and found the pump number to be 013, so it appears the original 2.4S pump is in place.
My friend is convinced that the engine is the original 2.4S engine with only the case transplanted to a 911/83 casing. He says someone told him the 2.7 pistons have a larger fin spacing, so that the ones he has are 2.4.

The casing is most definitely 911/83. It is a 7R casing.
I am a bit surprised. Is it possible to refit a 911/83 casing to a 2.4S engine, in other words can you fit 2.4 pistons to a 2.7 911/83 casing?

Thanks for any further info.

Kind regards,

Marc

Hi Marc, No it's not possible to fit 2.4 pistons to a 2.7 911/83 casing.

Diameter of spigots:
2.7 = 97mm
2.0, 2.2, 2.4 = 92mm

Hope this helps.