Why do some shops take years for a restoration?

[steve shea]

Poor business model? Disorganized? Slow subcontractor work?

Some shops are one in one out. Others have multiple projects and work from car to car. Some sole proprietor. Others with large crews. A year seems like plenty of time. But I know of many multi year restorations. I've been in the hobby for a long time and can say this is not new. Long before the current popularity of Porsches. And, I do not mean the type of shop that take on a restoration as a favor or filler work like some collision shops do. I mean dedicated high profile restoration shops.

The worst 911 I have seen, the silver 70/71 S that Alan UK did, was done in a very timely manner. The car looked gorgeous when finished. I'm not questioning the quality of work, most all of the shops do beautiful restorations. Also this is for really nice to be driven restorations. One level below concours. Not many here want to dust off the suspension it seems.

I guess I've seen too many Overhaulin' shows. Heh Heh! My friend Billy Doyle of four Cam fame, when all parts are machined and plated and ready, will assemble a roller crank and do cam timing etc. in a comparatively reasonable time. I know, same church, different pew. But there are VERY few 4 cam builders world wide and many resto shops. I'm going through a painfully slow restoration now. I know it will be great when done, but it kind of takes the fun out of it. And I am a patient person with other things to do.

[steve shea]

Good points Raj.

[rower]

My experience is that they take on too many projects in order to be accommodating to valued clients and to ensure there is always work. Combined with the client not wanting to sacrifice quality for time so the pressure is more minimal at first. Then of course there are the hidden surprised, none of which are positive.

The best are also artists and don't want to rush, be managed or have to manage others. They got great reputations because they are fastidious, and then the volume if work followed, with them having difficulty to say no.

Having said this, 1 to 2 plus years is the norm.

[steve shea]

I think you nailed it, rower. They take on too much work. The one in , one out shops may be the best for timely work. You still have to wait your turn, but at least you have your car to drive. Then when it finally goes in the shop it is done in a reasonable time frame.

[rower]

I think you nailed it, rower. They take on too much work. The one in , one out shops may be the best for timely work. You still have to wait your turn, but at least you have your car to drive. Then when it finally goes in the shop it is done in a reasonable time frame.

I know that after restoration when I have small issues they slot my car in and take car of it. That has to slow down the full projects. One would think they would "budget" for these constant interruptions but they don't.

Personally I like the process so I can't complain. Too much.

[steve shea]

Yes, I guess it's a complaint. But I have never had a restoration take as long as this one. At this rate I don't know how many restorations I have left in me.

[gsjohnson]

I owned and operated a Shelby, Mustang and Muscle Ford restoration shop in the 90s. The normal completion time was 18 to 24 months. There was a multitude of issues with running business like this for profit. The two main issues were too many projects at once and cash flow...Long term projects with quality results won't pay the bills. You must take on an assortment quick turn repairs to pay the bills and then progress on your restos begin to lag as a result. There's a reason the big guys charge an exorbinate amount of money for their restorations.

[rower]

How long?

I have an xke going through a full restoration now. It had ZERO rust or body issues, perhaps the nicest seen that was taken apart.

The restorer acts as a general contractor. The body is at a well know paint shop, and that will take several months, perhaps even six months. The engine is off being rebuilt and that and the transmission are the quickest. The interior re upholstery is bring done relatively quickly.

The real time is the fastidious reconstruction if the car and all the details.

Initial estimate: 12 months. I think it will be 18. And there are a few on at once as sometimes things aren't back in time so the next step can't be done.

If the body needed work it could be many more months.

[Haasman]

Echoing on Raj's comments, I think every year a Porsche restoration becomes a more complicated project. Collectively we are exposed to more and more (dare I say it) overly restored cars that are impressionable. I think without even realizing it our expectations are climbing and thus to achieve these levels means more time and money. That being said I do like a specific conversation, documented, with exactly what and when the restoration of a car will be.

Additionally, I don't think any two restorations are the same. All cars have issues; some minor and some require a lot of extra work whether labor or parts sourcing.

For each of us contemplating a restoration, whether we do it or have it done, having a clear specific final result in mind keeps everyone on the same page.

As a sidebar, I've noticed the word "perfect" rarely seen on this board or for that matter regarding Porsches recently. I am glad for that. Since each of these cars are so different from the next, perfection as a standard seems like an excuse for not really understanding these vehicle's individuality.

[Louie]

Having just (paid) to have our car restored (and having personally done restorations myself with my own hands...)

If I were running a restoration shop here is how it would work:

1) Take on X number of restorations per year. Under promise and over deliver. It can be done...for example: I can order a new hand made Singer today and have it in 6 months. Those guys go at least to the same levels required for a major nut and bolt restoration. Point being that if Singer can churn a car built to that level in 6 months so can any well run car restoration business...if they wanted to.

2) Have a contract whereby the owner knows the schedule for completion/ total cost. Starting with a start up charge of 10%...then every month there is a charge to their credit cards for that months work. The amount is always the same regardless of the work done that month. If the contract called for a $120k restoration over 12 months the client would know that they were going to be charged $10k per month for 12 months. That would cure crappy cash flow and give the clients a peace of mind.

3) I would provide my restoration clients tons of pictures..and maybe even videos of the process. Post the images on the company website so the client can check out progress 24/7. Even better produce a site just for that clients car...when you buy a new Ferrari they give you a 'baby book'. Its a book of images taken while your car was being made. No reason restoration facilities couldn't do the same or better. Why not make personalized little gifts for the client...every month the shop owner can use a service like 'cafe press' to send the client a coffee mug with their cars (completed) image, next month a t-shirt...etc. This sort of thing matters.

4) I would offer a clearly defined menu of services so there is no grey area over expectations. As a shop owner I would know what the potential hidden costs are and fully disclose them to the owner. Let the owner psychologically prepare for the 'worst case' and then be happy when it doesn't happen. While restoring our car more than once I was asked for additional money to cover some added expense. Fine. However, was I told a lower price initially to secure my business at the cost of full disclosure?

5) If the customer was a jerk I would cancel the project and return his car at his expense.

Tim