Special early 1964 features on 1965 cars

[Brett Johnson]

New question: Hella 128 fog lights were standard on US and German spec. early 911s. The metal covers used for cars without them have 902 part numbers implying first use on 912s.

As you can see in the images the RHD TBC 21 '65 911 has the metal covers. I can't imagine someone going to the trouble and expense to fit these and then install the Lucas spot and fog light in the horn grilles.

So, what markets were 911 fog lights optional through the 1966 model year?

[Brett Johnson]

New question: Through the 1966 model year, all US and German spec. 911s came with Hella 128 fog lights. Cars without fog lights had steel covers which had 902 part numbers implying that they were originally used on 912s.

The TBC 21 1965 911 has lower covers. I assume that it was unlikely and not cost effective that these were added when the Lucas fog and spot light were added by a well meaning previous owner.

So, in what markets were Hella 128 fog lights optional on 911s through the 1966 model year?

[DEEMAN]

I could understand someone fitting TTG lights in preference to the lower mounting to get better light spread. Maybe the owner did just that and fitted cover plates to neaten off the appearance.
My understanding is that all MY65/68 RHD 911 cars were fitted with 'yellow' Hella 128's in the bumper and velour carpeted interior - never rubber mats (unless ordered otherwise).
I stand to be corrected.

Ian

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Member 3440
1965 RHD 911 302136

[John912]

My understanding is that all 911s thru 66 had fogs as standard, and optional on 912s. When the 911S was introduced in 67, it appears they removed some standard features from the normal model (fogs, pressure gauges, trunk lights, etc) and made them options, thus offering a lower-cost alternative to the upscale S. I think 67 was the first year for 911 4-speed.

[Allen Henderson]

I could understand someone fitting TTG lights in preference to the lower mounting to get better light spread. Maybe the owner did just that and fitted cover plates to neaten off the appearance.
My understanding is that all MY65/68 RHD 911 cars were fitted with 'yellow' Hella 128's in the bumper and velour carpeted interior - never rubber mats (unless ordered otherwise).
I stand to be corrected.

Ian

____________
Member 3440
1965 RHD 911 302136

I'd too think that what the owner did. Plus the 128’s probably rusted out or got wrecked. Plus the TTG light is not factory, so surely added later. Thanks.

-Allen-

[moito]

New question: Through the 1966 model year, all US and German spec. 911s came with Hella 128 fog lights. Cars without fog lights had steel covers which had 902 part numbers implying that they were originally used on 912s.

The TBC 21 1965 911 has lower covers. I assume that it was unlikely and not cost effective that these were added when the Lucas fog and spot light were added by a well meaning previous owner.

So, in what markets were Hella 128 fog lights optional on 911s through the 1966 model year?

the covers on tbc are later covers--the bigger ones 67ish

[Brett Johnson]

First, sorry for posting the same thing twice -- it didn't show up on my computer for awhile. If I just did it again, it is because it keeps telling me i don't have permission to post!!!

Yes, 1967 fog lights became optional in most markets. During the SWB era the covers only changed once in June 1965 (350100 912) and the size was different 180 mm x 125 mm vs. 165 mm x 110 mm for the early ones. This car was built around that time, so covers are inconclusive -- still don't know chassis number or I'd probably know a lot more.

Based on information I have gleaned, I thought it was unlikely the UK spec. cars would not have come with Hella 128 fog lights installed. Does anyone have actual documentation for countries other than the US and Germany?

On transmissions -- I did write about these in the Summer 2020 issue of Esses. Four speed 911 configurations were available (on request) in the 1966 model year, but not 1965.

[Allen Henderson]

Right, 1967 MY cars were de-contented and came standard with no FogLights (don't know country by country) and agree unlikely U.K. car did come with under the bumper Hella 128s. That was the whole reason for the so-called "911 deLuxe" which was nothing but a left over 1966 MY car, with a fancy name. Thanks.

-Allen-

[NeunElf]

This isn't the most definitive source on where foglamps might have been optional but I do have a German/English/French/Italian Accessories Pricelist.

Bestel l-Nr.	Artikel
Order No.	Description
No. de comm.	Article		Sep 65 $
No d'ordine	Descrizione	DM	US $
9293	2 Nebellampen mit gelbem Reflektor (bei 911 ohne Mehrpreis)	110	27.5
644.631.912.03	2 fog lights
	2 phares anti-brouillard avec réflecteur jaune (sur Ia 911 sans supplément de prix)
	2 fari antinebbia con luce gialla (di serie nel 911)

I also have a scan of the illustrated accessories brochure:

Courtesy Charlie White

There's no mention anywhere of the Hella 128 foglight version with the silver reflector that normally came to the USA.

Most mentions of "bei 911 ohne Mehrpreis" are rendered on the English line as "for 911 standard equipment" but there are a few "without additional price on 911." There are 4 instances of the English line omitting a translation of "bei 911 ohne Mehrpreis."

1. 9229 Gasoline-electric auxiliary heater
2. 9265 Wooden steering wheel
3. 9266 Horn button, black
4. 9293 2 fog lights

I fear this still leaves room for interpretation.

[NeunElf]

Come to think of it, there are some brochures that mention foglights. Here's an April 1965 brochure

This brochure was printed in Germany in April 1965 and designated W221e. It gives fuel tank capacity as 15.5 US gallons so it was probably intended for America.