'Versuch' Cars

[_gonbau]

It looks like 320-013 was discovered a few years back. It was first registered as S-J 3063 in May 1968 by Porsche then LB-MH 40 by Hans Mezger.

https://newsroom.porsche.com/de/2019...ger-16212.html

Attachment 575680

Attachment 575681

Attachment 575682

When a Porsche family member wanted to dispose of a vehicle like in this case... did they go to a dealership for its sale? Or did they personally handle the transaction with the buyer? In the first image of the document, I see 115. This leads me to think that this vehicle went through Hahn. I'm not sure if this was before its construction (it was ordered at registration levels from there) or for the sale to Mezger.


What I would like to clarify... could 115, as it appears on that sheet, be referring to a dealership? If so... at what point does that reference come into play if we understand that the vehicle was used as a "prototype" with various parts?

[davep]

What I would like to clarify... could 115, as it appears on that sheet, be referring to a dealership?

This is a VERY popular misconception. The 115 refers to the Distributorship not a Dealer. Hahn sold cars to the Dealer, and the Dealer sold cars to a customer. Hahn may have had its own dealerships, but its primary purpose was to co-ordinate sales and service through its dealers. There are certain booklets of Distributors and Dealers that have lists of the dealers associated with a Distributor; usually about 40 or so. These booklets will show the Distributor number followed by the Dealer number.
115/000 is Hahn Automobilgroßhändel GmbH, the Zentralhändeler or Distributor
115/001 is Hahn Motorfahrzeuge GmbH, the dealer in Fellbach
115/003 is Baden Auto GmbH, the dealer in Freiburg
115/051 is Autohaus Wagenblast & Co, the dealer in Aalen
115/062 is Ludwig Gerstenmaier Automobile, the dealer in Baden-Baden
115/074 is Gebr. Gehringer, the dealer in Bad Mergentheim
115/078 is W & E Konrad oHG, the dealer in Brushsal

[928cs]

This is a VERY popular misconception. The 115 refers to the Distributorship not a Dealer. Hahn sold cars to the Dealer, and the Dealer sold cars to a customer. Hahn may have had its own dealerships, but its primary purpose was to co-ordinate sales and service through its dealers. There are certain booklets of Distributors and Dealers that have lists of the dealers associated with a Distributor; usually about 40 or so. These booklets will show the Distributor number followed by the Dealer number.
115/000 is Hahn Automobilgroßhändel GmbH, the Zentralhändeler or Distributor
115/001 is Hahn Motorfahrzeuge GmbH, the dealer in Fellbach
115/003 is Baden Auto GmbH, the dealer in Freiburg
115/051 is Autohaus Wagenblast & Co, the dealer in Aalen
115/062 is Ludwig Gerstenmaier Automobile, the dealer in Baden-Baden
115/074 is Gebr. Gehringer, the dealer in Bad Mergentheim
115/078 is W & E Konrad oHG, the dealer in Brushsal

Is there a list of all the German dealer codes?
I try to find which are 114/004 and 116/013.
Also, what are the differences between 100/101, 100/102,100/103 and 100/104?

[_gonbau]

This is a VERY popular misconception. The 115 refers to the Distributorship not a Dealer. Hahn sold cars to the Dealer, and the Dealer sold cars to a customer. Hahn may have had its own dealerships, but its primary purpose was to co-ordinate sales and service through its dealers. There are certain booklets of Distributors and Dealers that have lists of the dealers associated with a Distributor; usually about 40 or so. These booklets will show the Distributor number followed by the Dealer number.
115/000 is Hahn Automobilgroßhändel GmbH, the Zentralhändeler or Distributor
115/001 is Hahn Motorfahrzeuge GmbH, the dealer in Fellbach
115/003 is Baden Auto GmbH, the dealer in Freiburg
115/051 is Autohaus Wagenblast & Co, the dealer in Aalen115/062 is Ludwig Gerstenmaier Automobile, the dealer in Baden-Baden
115/074 is Gebr. Gehringer, the dealer in Bad Mergentheim
115/078 is W & E Konrad oHG, the dealer in Brushsal

Thanks for that information about Hahn, I had not looked in depth and until now I only thought that there were 3 locations that started at 115, also add this regarding Hahn:
115/000 is Hahn Automobilgroßhändel GmbH, the Zentralhändeler or Distributor
115/001 is Hahn Motorfahrzeuge GmbH, the dealer in Fellbach
115/003 is Baden Auto GmbH, the dealer in Freiburg
115/051 is Autohaus Wagenblast & Co, the dealer in Aalen
115/058/2 'Hahn & Spahr'
115/062 is Ludwig Gerstenmaier Automobile, the dealer in Baden-Baden
115/074 is Gebr. Gehringer, the dealer in Bad Mergentheim
115/078 is W & E Konrad oHG, the dealer in Brushsal

In the case of 115, could a Porsche vehicle have been delivered in any of those designations? Would the factory only show you the correct "mother distributor" in the information? How would you know that data? For an invoice etc...?
Why was 115 noted in that documentation if the vehicle came from the factory?
"The decisive advice came from Hans Mezger himself: before purchasing it, the pre-production vehicle was probably used to approve the new specifications, as a company car for Ferdinand Piëch, then head of development at Porsche."
Did he then have to go through a "distributor" to become the property of Mezger? Or did he have to go through 115 for it to be owned by Ferninand?

[oliver-911]

Just a tiny correction for 115/078 The dealer‘s location is Bruchsal.

[Eric Gratz]

Any ideas on which car this might have been?

[70SATMan]

More importantly, who’s at the wheel?

[HughH]

Eric
I presume it may have been one of the prototypes. Prototype 5 (13325) was destroyed by drop testing on December 7 1965 so it was not that one - it was yellow anyway.

Some of the others recorded as being sold but for a lot of them Aichiele (probably the best source) has them as "disposal unknown" rather than "scrapped" or sold. Therefore it may have been one of those, which includes prototypes #3 (but unlikely as it went to VW), #4(but it was yellow), #9 (colour unknown) although it had a sunroof, and #12 (red). #12 (300001 had done 48,000 HARD kms, including endurance testing,at the end of 1965 so was probably due to be scrapped anyway. It may have still been registered as S UN 478 at that stage and, as a car with a series serial number may have been ideal for such a test



But it could just as easily been a very early "Versuch" car although they kept the cars for at least a year in testing so, in my view more likely a prototype if this photo was taken in 1966 - maybe in the first part of 1966 as there is no snow in sight but no leaves on the trees

[Eric Gratz]

Hugh,

Prototype 12, SN 300001, seems like a likely contender. The Deutschland D is in the right location and it has the longer Porsche script than the earlier prototypes.

Thanks,
Eric