OPINIONS PLEASE: 1971 911S with original 2.2 rebuilt to 2.4

[Ted_S]

Not sure this is the right place to post this...

I have a deposit down on a tangerine 1971 911S Targa that is undergoing engine work and some interior work as well (new carpets, seats re-upholstered, etc).

In the process of doing a top end rebuild of the engine the seller (a dealer & a board member, who is reputable) identified that the engine which # matches per COA was rebuilt to 2.4S specs - pistons, cams, crank, etc. As well a 915 tranny was put in (though the original 901 is being provided with the car as well) which I did know upfront.

At first blush this wasn't great news. Extra power is great, but I was going for the originality. That said, I like how the car is turning out, and the color and year are what I'm looking for.

So, couple of questions:

1) Assuming the 2.4 conversion was done right, is there any risk or impact on the engine longevity from this?
2) In the spectrum of non-correct modifications, where is a rebuild of a 2.2S to a 2.4S? How would it impact the car's value if you were buying? If I'm being honest with myself, among the reasons I'm buying is collectibility over time.

To be very clear, the seller has been completely upfront and ethical about it - I am very comfortable doing business with him. The 2.4 rebuild was a surprise to him as well.

many thanks,
Ted

[LongRanger]

Hi, Ted . . .

Well --- as long as your asking for opinions! . . .

I guess swapping-out the 901 for a 915 is one thing. (The 901 is the correctly-numbered original unit, right?) 901s are a chore that some people can do without. (Not me.)

And bumping-up the displacement, lowering the compression (?) (you did mention that you're using 2.4S pistons, so . . . ) and getting more power are perfectly understandable. Nothing wrong with more power, right?

But doing both?

I'm one of those die-hard closet-cases who specifically sought-out a 2.2 car because it doesn't have all the things this car is getting. Ask yourself --- 'Why did I want a 2.2, again?" I mean, why not just get a 2.4?

Yes, the work you've described is un-doable. And yes --- it may even be a better car to drive --- more power, faster! But being un-doable and being better are not the same as being genuine. For me, originality is more than just some numbers and appearances . . . or the color or the year. Originality extends beyond valuing (or embellishing) the good --- to me, it means accepting, even cherishing --- the not-so-good.

I'm absolutely the last person you'll wanna ask about 'investing' . . . but I can tell you that, IMHO, by goosing the motor and pulling the trans . . . the car is now 'Something Like ---' or 'Used to Be a 2.2S' --- and no longer the Real Deal.

Rick Kreiskott

[Tom F.]

I think that the update to the 915 is a big drawback. I don't have experience to say for sure, but I have heard that the 2.2 S motor was better than the 2.4 S, and that the increase in displacement was to offset the loss of specific power due to the change in displacement. I think that some would say that the 66 mm stroke is more desirable, too.

[popowitz]

A numbers matching car with modifications will typically fetch a lower price than a factory original car. However, if this is the car that you have been searching for then the situation is manageable. Have the dealer reinstall the 901 and give you the 915. Use 2.2S pistons and cylinders when rebuilding the engine which will return the compression to original and bring back that revvy feeling again. Later on sell the 915 to recoup some of the cash for the car.

Even if the car doesn't appreciate as well as a factory original it will still appreciate because it is numbers matching.

Good luck.

Dave

[davep]

I guess that as long as all the changes are fully revesible, then you will come out okay. However, check to see just what original parts you will be missing; MFI pump, cams, crank, etc. If you intend to use the car enough to warrant another engine rebuild before you sell, then you may not be out much. Consider carefully the costs to convert back with the purchase price, and a projected sale price later. If the balance looks acceptable, then proceed. The color, quality and year become bonuses.

[69Sman]

5 or 6 years ago I was 'first on the scene' for a Conda Green 70S, matching numbers NICE car. The engine had been spec'ed to a 2.7RS build. At the time, I was wanting at 70 or 71S 2.2S to 'fit' the collection - between my 72S (which was also spec'ed to 2.7rs specs) and my 73RS with a 2.8 RUF motor.
As the Conda Green car's engine was no longer 2.2S and I REALLY wanted THAT type engine....I passed. I could've nabbed the car for under $20K. To this day I believe that it was the LAST GREAT DEAL.....and I passed. The car is currently owned by a S REGISTRY and RGRUPPE member, who swooped in about 6 minutes after I said no.

To this day, I kick myself for NOT buying that car.....

[MarkS]

I agree with popowitz, to add I consider the body waaaaaay more important than mechanicals, matching # engine and trans a big plus. If the body is strong go. There are so many patched/hacked together early cars out there it truly amazes me.

[Edwin Ek]

No risk to the motor. It's OK since the modifications are reversible. Not what I would have chosen, but it could be worse. Nothing like high compression. I like the 901's, so I would undo that and sell the 915.

[72targa]

Another reference point...

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ad.php?t=35980

[Ted_S]

thanks all - very helpful. Have some thinking to do...