Banjo horn brackets 71/72

[BOYER73S]

The English 71 car built in November 70 with banjo horns facing down side by side has 030 code horns which is an October date.

I think that answers many of the questions, not sure about your April 71 build car Robert seems to fly in the face of other evidence like Franks car and the English car.

Not definitive I know but pretty compelling to say that early 71 (late 70 build cars) had the bracket on the battery box and had bosche banjo horns dated near to their production date and had horns side by side, facing down

Until someone proves otherwise to me I am sticking with that.

[Richy]

I looked at a '70S #1690 , so definitely one of the last and the battery boxes did not have a bracket on the back for banjo horns , only the bracket on the bottom for snail horns .

[BOYER73S]

Thanks for the info Richy, seems to confirm Robert's info that 70's only had snails now the only piece of the puzzle missing is exactly when did snails become banjos.

We need some very early 71 owners i.e first 200 cars perhaps, to chime in with what they have as the English car I am using for reference is #664 so we need earlier.

[911MRP]

From some quick research I have found the 1971 model year cars having the horn brackets mounted under battery boxes up till January. I have not found good examples with backside brackets until till about April 71’.
That leaves about 4 months in between I have no data for.

Clyde. My 67-68-69-70 parts book only show snail shell fanfare horns 400hz left, 500 hz right and the older style high low tone Bosch horn plus a 335hz horn not to be used in the 911S. No photo of a banjo trumpet.
It mentions nothing about country specific and the only thing I have every noticed were Italian spec cars having fiamms installed. I can’t say if it’s by coincidence but I’ve noticed in on several cars 1970 MY.

I went through some of my boxes and pulled out just a few horns and I have snail shells dating from 67 till mid year 71. I have one oddball snail shell dated mid year 73’ which was probably a new replacement.
My banjo dates start around mid year of 70’ and I also have one oddball dated 10th week 69’.
It’s not tagged as coming from a 911 or any certain chassis. Probably from another European car.

I seem to think that early in 1971 the banjos were getting phased and were dependant on supply and the using up of stock on the snail shells . A snail shell would determine the battery box bracket location and a different wiring loom in the signal box as they were mounted left and right side with horn feed coming from ea box and banjos used a loom that fed both horns only on left side.

That’s all I have for now
Cheers

Further Robert’s comment in his second paragraph, I have found the following table in a factory document:

I believe the table is entitled “ bodywork changes for model 69?:

Note equipment spec is not same for basic T model (and 912) vs others so helps to be specific about which model if drawing conclusions from unmolested examples extant. Is there similar model differentiation other years?

Maybe this datapoint doesn’t address the period of remaining uncertainty but horn equipment was noteworthy enough feature as a line item in the summary of model 69 body changes. Unfortunately my equivalent documents for all other model years don’t specify anything about horn changes even though there were changes to horns beyond 69.

Steve

[911MRP]

Also regarding date sport Fanfaren ( banjo) first used on 911, I previously started this thread. https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...ose-interested

In it i uploaded this advert from one of my Chistophorus — date of August 1969:


Note the comment:

Our native German speakers might confirm the web translation
But it seems to something like “ the new bright red Fanfaren” ?



I must say I’m surprised as I thought these banjos were an older product than this suggests? . For that reason I don’t want to read too much into this somewhat generic advert (but it is in the Porsche in-house flagship magazine not some generalist motoring monthly).

Porsche being a customer would have visibility of Bosch product development roadmaps before such things ever appear in public domain averts . However if these horns were indeed new to market around that time in summer 69 as implied by that particular comment, it’s perhaps a hint to the approximate date of introduction of the so called banjo horns to ( some of) the 911 range?

A comment taken at face value about being “new and referring to “ bright red horn” (rather than other types illustrated) had been hiding in plain sight since that thread about Fanfaren was posted for reference back in 2016? I don’t speak German so new didn’t jump out to me until trying to better nail down when these first started to appear.

I should add caveats: Being marketing material rather it may of course be the new comment is somewhat unreliable; I might turn out these are indeed an older design than is being implied. Also I haven’t rigorously gone back to my original sources to check through my prior issues of Christophorus so this may not be the first date the advert containing that comment appeared in tne company magazine. Nor have I cross checked my Bosch catalog reference material to see if it has vehicle application lists.

Even if helps to date when first used on 911 the generic advert doesn’t inform on questions of where/ how they got fitted.

Steve

[BOYER73S]

Interesting Steve.

I don't think there has ever been a suggestion they were fitted to 69 cars from the factory and to Roberts point that unless the bracket was on the back of the battery box
then likely that snail horns were the go.

[911MRP]

Agree not 69. Was sharing datapoints I had to hand on old factory reference materials on 500hz as reading the patterns of five decade old example cars hard and maybe not reliable.

Frankly my interest is in the banjo to stritone transition that clearly happened around the calendar 72 -73. The audible warning devices regulation that is a matter of record seems likley to have required that Porsche change horn equipment such that new model 73 cars had E mark complaint horns on them when it came into force in each country markets that were parties to it.

Steve

[beech33pilot]

Here are my nearly original, early (#00163 7/71 build date) 1972 T horns:


Has the original 5 brackets. The HOCH (deep) horn, the short one, is date coded 031 and the TIEF (high) horn is date coded 125 which leads me to believe that the short one might have been replaced at some point. The KAMAK bolt is 13mm and the nut is 14mm which seems odd.

Also interesting that the short one does not have the bosses for the longer screws as most of the horns in this thread.

[GRIFF]

I am in need of these horns if anyone has any to part with for my 1972 911T, please contact me if you have any for purchase. Thank you.