Ultimate ST thread

[matteo68]

I have the fzgs for all of the 21 and all of them except 0495 and 0550 do NOT have a handwritten T after 911 S…

Here’s the fzg for 0955 - my facsimile project:



M491 only and no T!

Lots of crossing out but I think this would have been a pre-printed fzg for a S Coupe which needed amending for the M491 details.

[matteo68]

And here’s the fzg for 1687 - same again:

[Leirbag]

That's interesting, that means that the factory quickly removed the T to avoid the homologation's problems of the 911 S. For me this confirms that the factory never called "911 S type T" or anything else for the 911 S Gr.4 in 1972.

As weel, on this document, there is the engine performance test bench, and it is marked as making 277.6 HP, almost 10HP away from what was noted on the sales sheet of the vehicle ! It's a really cool document that you have there Matteo !

[matteo68]

I also have the fzg and motor test results for 0495 - 279.8 HP @ 8,000 u/min…

[_gonbau]

No one here says anything... About the documents? According to my thinking, these are extremely important documents, but I don't see any interest in them (no one says anything...). Strange, in my opinion. I must say that I came to the conclusion that those vehicles didn't have the T, not by looking at the documents (of which I only have a couple), but through logic and reasoning... Now that you mention it publicly, Matteo, I'm glad you can corroborate it through viewing these pages (I wish I had had the luck to have those pages from the beginning) since I asked you some things in private a while ago, and they were not answers related to these very matters. Since you have those documents, I understand you can clearly say what you say: That there are 19 vehicles that do not have the T written on their sheets (so they are not marked S/T), and there are 2 others that do. From my perspective, I would add 769, although this differs in the Z-program. So, according to my thinking... There is indeed a list of S/T vehicles for the year '72 (M471), there is also a list of purely racing M491 vehicles (19 according to my thinking, not S/T), and there is also a list of Z-Programm S/T 471+491 vehicles where Porsche used an M471 vehicle and mounted a 2.5L M491 circuit engine on it.

Do you have the sheet for 769? From when it was a '72.... I think that would confirm what I think... That the M471 vehicles were the ones that carried the T... And that the M491 vehicles were different in "design" from the Z-Programm vehicles since the latter did include M471 and therefore the T, and therefore could be road registered (I don't know if with the requirement of individual approval or not).

I should point out here that Mr. Barth told me personally just a month ago that no M491 vehicle on this "ST" list should have the letters SP. He also told me that these '72 vehicles were made on T shells.

Everyone is free to believe what they consider appropriate once these images and the documentation discussed in this magnificent post by different experts on the subject (where I do not include myself) are seen... where a person can come to know enough to start questioning their own doubts...

From my perspective, I don't know why Mr. Barth told me this at such an advanced time when things can be verified by different people, but I want to leave this detail here. So that it is known, what is still being said about these vehicles by the people who were responsible for making them. I hope that these sheets will continue to be discussed here as I consider them more important than the car itself, and clarifying them is "our/the forum's" duty.

Regarding the vehicle for which the page now requires a password. I received a message on this same forum from someone who I believe claims to be the owner. He asked me for the link, so I understand that this was caused by him. If that's the case, he can ask me to delete the photos, as I have no problem doing so! I published them because they were public in a public video. I don’t know why, when I published them, the page changed and now requires a password. Either way, you can look up the photographer's profile who made the video, or you can visit the 'web time machine'... I guess this is the problem with the Internet and the modern era... Everything is recorded.
+
By the way, on that 955 sheet, you can see that SP was written on it at the same time as M491 and spider differential were crossed out, so based on this, I still think that SP was written after the vehicle was already built and that it was an adjustment or check, according to my thinking

Since M491 vehicles could only be issued with the M491 package, the following question comes to mind, Matteo: Of those 19 vehicles, are the ones with limited-slip differentials all noted by hand? Yes? I think this because the M491 sheets were made and then the detail of SP and the + was added to those M491 vehicles that had the differential equipped.

*Does 538 have the S/T notation? I would think it does, but since you haven’t mentioned it, perhaps it doesn’t.

[matteo68]

I don’t have the sheet for 0769 as it’s not one if the 21 but I do have the data from it:

VIN number: 911 230 0769
Production number: 102 3900
Engine number: 6321213
Engine type: 911/83 (standard 2.4S)
Gearbox number: 7325418
Colour: Blutorange
Options: M424, M471, M474

However I don’t have the description of the car unfortunately and can’t tell you if there was a ‘T’ between S and Coupe.

On the fzg for 0955 I believe the red lines under the stated options (M491, Sperredifferential & Oel pompe) are for emphasis, not crossing out.

For the 19 M491s, the handwritten ‘+SP’ does not appear if the gearbox didn’t have an LSD fitted (these being 0495, 0550 & 0910). Note that not all gearboxes were type 915/00, some were ‘Sondergetriebe kein 915/00’ / Special gearbox without type 915/00 designation (0495, 0910, 0983, 1155 & 1328).

Also, 1 of the 21 had a type 911/70 engine with Vergaser / carburettor: 0818 (Eberhard Sindel).

Finally I can confirm that 0538 did NOT have a handwritten ‘T’ the S on its fzg.

Matt

[Leirbag]

Matteo,


Do you know if 0872 was equipped with carburetor ?


I always thought 0818 had an injection pump, it's a bit of a surprise for me that it had carburetors... (The 2.8L engine in 1973 had an injection pump, high butterfly engine)

[matteo68]

According to the spreadsheet Konradsheim sent me with all the data taken from the fzgs for ‘72 911S (ST or M491) - he has hundreds, if not thousands of them - 0818 says carburettor and 0872 says injection.

[Leirbag]

interesting...

[HughH]

yes i have 0872 as 911/70 (Einspritzer)