Recommendations on repaint during slow restoration

[lexatola]

Hi all,

I'm looking from some opinions from those with more experience than myself. I have a 1970E which when I purchased it about a year ago was "updated" with many SC cosmetic components. Front and rear bumpers, rocker covers, all black painted chrome, electric flag mirror - you get the picture. I've been gathering up parts to bring the car back to 1970 specs and now I'm ready to start dealing with some of the bodywork issues. Example - I'm ready to put the rear bumber components on, front steel S bumper, plus some fixes to a rusty rocker, etc. Ideally, I'd like to do these fixes a bit at a time both so I can afford the work but also because I'd like to keep driving the car. My thought was to either do each section in primer and perhaps a year from now the car would be ready for a respray, or I would do a quick color match to the current color and again whenever money and time allows I would do a repaint down the line but with all of the backdating done and the body issues already corrected.

Keeping in mind that funds will prevent me from dropping $10k all at once - I'd be interested in hearing some opinions on how to best proceed.

Thanks once again for reading and lending your experience,

Best,

Alex

[karlusmagnus]

You can drive it when its in primer. Its not like primer is a rev restrictor ;-) Then when you paint, you do it once and do it properly. Tim G, up in Rhode Island, has been driving his car, getting it ready mechanically, having fun, collecting parts. Its in primer. He comes to most of the events when he can. He is planning to paint it soon. Seems like a good plan. I would not paint now, and again later. Just my 8 cents.
Welcome aboard anyway Alex. Post some pics of how it is now. Would love to see and follow how your project comes along.
All the best,

Karl.

[raspy2point2]

Paint it all at once -- It is hard to perfectly match paint from one time to another. chris

[John Z Goriup]

Alex,

The advice so far is all well and good, but I'm stuck on your original post wherein you tell us that your '70 T has been updated with some SC bits. Now, assuming you are correct and your car indeed has SC front & rear bumpers, (as well as some of the other, later model trinkets you mention, which are really minor considerations ), it follows that you must also have a "Shorthood" front lid and fenders. Since front fenders, lid and bumpers are not interchangeable components between "impact bumper" and early ( '64 -'73 cars, you need to look under your car's skirts to determine exactly what work is required to return the front to stock configuration so you can bolt on all stock components utilizing stock brackets and hardware. It further follows that the rear fenders also had to be altered / changed to fit SC bumpers.

What I'm saying, Alex, is that you may be unaware or are overlooking that you will require an early front lid, correct early front fenders (with horn grill openings, etc.) and the correct front bumper. Your S steel bumper by itself will not match up with an SC front end. Installing those components, having them fit and to be able to use all the correct latches, lights, brackets and hardware will necessitate structural alteration in the very front of the monocoque, and will probably require laying the car up for some time to do a proper job of it all........not to mention the cost.

You really need to post photos of your car from all angles plus a ton of details so it may be determined what your starting point actually is, so good, sound advise can be given.

The other consideration is the rear bumper and what has been done, if anything, to your rear fenders. You can easily bolt on stock LWB rear bumper segments after you obtain a license plate panel and bumperettes, but if your fenders have been "updated" to SC, there'll be a mismatch in the flare / bumper fit with standard early LWB bumpers.

To help you visualize what I'm talking about, I'm attaching three photos, the first of a typical SC-type 911, ( front 3/4 view) and the second of a standard "Longhood", '64 through '73, ( front view ) with S bumper. You can see the obvious differences in the front bumpers, lid & fenders / lights. The third photo is a 3/4 rear view of a typical SC era car so you can see the fender flare / bumper fit / details.

What exactly do you have in the way of components to return your updated "SC" to standard '70 T "longhood" appearance ?...........and I don't mean minor accessories such as rocker trim or mirrors, but major panels and sheet metal components.
JZG

[lexatola]

I fear that my general discription of the frankenstein nature of my car was misleading. Here's some more detail. The car had an SC rear end. I secured all the components for the proper 1970 bumper and have bolted them on. No issues, no SC flares. The current front bumper is not actually from an SC but is some type of FG RS looking piece. It may of been nice at some point but has taken too many hits likely as a result of the car being lowered. The hood is a proper long hood as are the front fenders. The Steel front bumper I have will fit fine. I've secured new window frames and quarter windows. All of which I've installed - no problem. The PO installed a custom carpet kit again kind of RS like but done quite poorly. I've pulled the carpet he had on the doors, rear quarters and rear deck out and have secured all the proper original pieces (expect the door panels - I went for the RS panels with the small plastic handles. The car was killing batteries and I discovered between a 1980s stereo system and an old alarm system that it was drawing over 90 MA. So I pulled out the entire stereo and alarm system and about a full garbage bag of aftermarket wiring. I found the correct dash trim pieces and also a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt and got some basketweave from PP and got that cleaned up. I pulled off the SC style rocker covers and found some rust under one of them. I found some nice used original rockers and have installed them over the rust just to look nice until I start the body work (now). The car has nice early sportseats and has a really well done 2.2S updated motor (matching number) with the earlier Solex cam. It's delivering about 160 hp to the wheels. The car has flat 6's all around and I'd like to find some proper deep 6's to get that right as well. I also took off the electric flag mirror which has left some odd holes in the drivers door. I'll need to have that fixed during the body work stage as well.

I really appreciate the heads up on what could have been an unglier situation. Fortunately, this is not the first early 911 I've owned. I certainly don't claim to be an expert and restoration definitely is not my thing, but I'm pretty up on the basics.

As far as the paint is concerned I'm leaning towards priming as I go and just enjoying driving it calico style for a while. As far as colors are concerned I leaning towards either Albert Blue or Signal yellow. The car is currently a non period correct metallic blue. If I'm going to primer as I go should the primer color be tinted to match the final coat? I've read that Porsche sometimes used other primer colors to help the top coat pop. I'd be interested in opinions on that subject as well if anyone has any thoughts.

Thanks again everyone for reading and lending your experience,

I find it really useful and enjoyable,

Best,

Alex

[Harvey Weidman]

Alex,
You can finish up to primer one piece at a time and you'll have some progress to show without the lump of cash. I frequently blast, repair, fit and prime one piece at a time just for that reason. You have to fit the individual parts many times during the paint process anyway-why not drive it while you are prepping. Then you can post the progress and detail your story.
Your primer process should be the same all over and the shade depends on the color that you choose to finish the car in. i.e. lighter-lighter, darker-darker The two you mention take different primer colors to achieve the original color. Signal yellow is almost white and Albert is probably much darker..
H

[adam912]

Harvey you raise an interesting point. I took about 2 years to take my hard-ridden 912 down to metal then slowly back to paint, with many (most!) panels needing repair of some sort. My M.O. was to clean up a panel, shoot primer as you describe, and drive it until I had time to work on it again. I used good 2K primer throughout. I've found in the three years since then that I have some serious adhesion problems, especially on panel edges, the rear edge of the doors, etc. I was very careful to keep the primer thickness to a minimum, and I wonder if letting the primer cure for a long time (serving as a finish cost for up to a month), combined with road dirt and oils contributed to my problem. Every coat was of course scuffed before anything else went over it, so I think I did my prep correctly.

Any tips for keeping the layer-to-layer adhesion as good as possible? Not that I plan on doing this again any time soon...

cheers
Adam912.Out

'66 912 490K miles, 2.2L of Type 4 lightweight fun!

[Harvey Weidman]

Two years is a long time for modern primers to be out there unpainted.
Some primers aren't made to be exposed and should be sealed. Some have a sealer built in. The ones that I have used are designed to work well for at least 18 months. Check the label or ask the salesman about exposure. Your primer may have been one of those that have to be sealed right away. It is possible to have the primer too thin. I have seen more weak paint from too thin than too thick. Talking to my paint rep-he said the most common adhesion problem is mostiure in the primer or on the panel followed by bad metal prep-not primer age. When I get all the panels ready, I spray a fresh last coat of primer/sealer then paint.
H

[lexatola]

Thanks again for everyones input. I'm inclined to go the route of doing a section at a time and rolling with primer until I've finished all the body work. Does anyone have experience on what primer/sealer should be used in this scenario if the final coat is going to be glasurit?

Very best,

Alex

[geshaghi]

Two years is a long time for modern primers to be out there unpainted.
Some primers aren't made to be exposed and should be sealed. Some have a sealer built in. The ones that I have used are designed to work well for at least 18 months. Check the label or ask the salesman about exposure. Your primer may have been one of those that have to be sealed right away. It is possible to have the primer too thin. I have seen more weak paint from too thin than too thick. Talking to my paint rep-he said the most common adhesion problem is mostiure in the primer or on the panel followed by bad metal prep-not primer age. When I get all the panels ready, I spray a fresh last coat of primer/sealer then paint.
H

Harvey's point is very important to note. Most primers don't seal well. Cars that are primed and left unfinished for an extended period of time will need additional prep work again before they can be painted. I suspect that in the pacific northwest, with frequent rains and high levels of moisture, rust will begin to bleed through most primers in a lot less than 18 months.