1968 USA 911-missing engine number mystery..all help appreciated

[Mathew R]

All, I own 11835045, a Karman built 911 normal USA emissions car. There is no number visible on the engine as far as I can see. Gearbox number is 3080111 which looks to be in the correct range. The crankcase number is 901.101.101.1R which from researching this site looks to be a 1968 crankcase. Porsche in Switz won't put the engine number on the COA as I can't tell them what it is.......must be to guard against fraud I guess.

Could it be that Porsche never stamped this engine for some reason, are there any precedents for that ?

Or, if the crankcase was replaced does this mean it would have had to have been when the car was very new for Porsche to be able supply with that crankcase number.

If I am reading the info correctly, that crankcase is one of the first magnesium ones, is there a way to visually confirm if its early magnesium v alu.

I know its a long shot, but if I can prove this is th original engine, or that it must have been rebuilt in its year of sale I will have a much easier conversation with the Swiss authorities when I try to register it for the road in the next few weeks. All comments welcome.
cheers
Mathew

[Merv]

I have 11835284 of the same US specifications (eng. no. 3280972), with magnesium 'case, sold in March 1968.

This may help: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...se-number.html

[kentf14]

Regarding the engine serial number. Are you looking next to the fan shroud as in the photo below?
If this support is in fact blank, then you may have a porsche supplied replacement case. The replacement cases were not stamped with the original number. Just a bit of advice, if your case is blank, I'd recommend NOT stamping your number on it. Doing this will obviously be "non-factory".

Now, the area in the green circle should have a type-number stamped in it, even if your case was blank. This number will be 901/XX. If you prove you have the correct type stamp, you may be able to state that you have the original type engine in the car.

Let us know what you find and I'll dig out my book to decode the engine type numbers for you (if nobody responds from memory first).

Regards
Kent

[Mathew R]

Thanks so far for the replies. Kent, see attached photo, there is no engine type number that I can see or feel. Its perfectly smooth there. I am looking in the right place, right ? Bottom right of the fan ?

cheers
Mathew

[kentf14]

You are looking in the right place. Looks like you have a blank replacement case. If you were to find a type number it should be 901/14 for a US emissions car.
You may have a difficult time with the import authority as you can't say that this is the original engine. What you have at present are the casting numbers which only point to a '68 build.

[davep]

You do have a blank magnesium replacement case. All engines built by the factory had serial #'s and type #'s. You car could have had either the aluminum or magnesium case originally; only the serial # could tell. For the original #'s you need to get the COA. The factory Kardex will have the information, and from that info the COA is prepared. I've no idea why the Swiss Porsche people will not provide the original #; that is what you are paying for after all. If you requested from PCNA in the USA they will provide it; in fact if you call them, they will tell you over the phone. The blank case means that the engine was rebuilt by someone other than the factory.
What is the paint code on the badge of the car?

[Mathew R]

Dave, Porsche America told me I had to deal with Porsche Switz, maybe I will try the Porsche Club NA for a more helpful response. Perhaps they are all getting tougher on the rules. Anyways, am confident its the "right" type of engine, just need a way to prove it.
Paint code is 6805, bahama yellow...which as you can see in the photo below its not.
I know Silver is dull dull dull, and sooo common today, but it looks good in the flesh, honestly !

[davep]

In my opinion, it is wrong for Porsche Schweiz to omit the engine and transmission numbers from a Certificate of Authenticity. That is what you are paying for, and the whole purpose of the certificate. Without those details the CoA is worthless. I sincerely hope that you did not have to pay for it. They are basically saying that they do not know the info that you are expected to pay for. I suppose that if you did have an engine #, then they would put it on the COA and claim it is the original? That would be fraud on their part. PCNA does not withhold that information; they understand that is what the customer is paying for.

[ESully]

I believe the problem is you have to understand what they are selling is a legal certificate that the car is "Authentic. To establish the authenticity of; prove genuine:". If it does not have the original parts then they cannot be "Authenticated" by them. You are paying them to research and put in writing the car is all original as it is now. In this case the engine is not authentic, therefore legaly they cannot give you that certification.
I believe they could probably give you the information on the original engine, but not through the COA program. I would call them, they may be able to tell you the original engine number as long as they don't have to authenticate it. When I spoke with them they were very helpful, but to get information printed on the COA such as production date I had to show them a picture of the compliance sticker in the door jamb to Authenticate the production completion date.

[JT912]

I believe the problem is you have to understand what they are selling is a legal certificate that the car is "Authentic. To establish the authenticity of; prove genuine:". If it does not have the original parts then they cannot be "Authenticated" by them. You are paying them to research and put in writing the car is all original as it is now. In this case the engine is not authentic, therefore legaly they cannot give you that certification.

I don't think that is completely accurate. I've got a '66 912 with a '68 engine for which I was able to get a COA from PCNA and it showed my original engine number.
My take on the COA is that it was to accurately document the "original assembly specifications" (from a COA ad). It wouldn't show dealer added items or how it is currently configured. Some also call this your car's "birth certificate".