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Thread: Disappointing change by Porsche regarding new COA's

  1. #1

    Disappointing change by Porsche regarding new COA's

    So, everyone is just going to just love this.

    Effective immediately, PCNA will no longer be including engine and transmission numbers on COA's for cars manufactured prior to 1979 UNLESS you can verify those numbers when you order your COA. In other words, if you don't already know your engine and transmission numbers, Porsche is not going to tell you. From their email to me:

    Please be aware that for security reasons, Porsche Cars North America now requires you to provide the original engine/transmission number for classic vehicles (1979 & older) in order to list the engine/transmission number on the Certificate of Authenticity. If you are not able to provide the original engine/transmission number, the Certificate of Authenticity will list 'Not Confirmed' for the engine/transmission numbers.

    If we do not hear from you to cancel the order or provide the original engine/transmission number then we will proceed to list 'Not Confirmed' in 5 business days.


    Some of you may know Sara over there. I spoke with her at length a couple days ago and wasn't shy about sharing my opinion of this decision. She told me that this had been in the works for some time and that it was a decision made by their legal team "due to the value of classic vehicles" and that they "do not wish to provide information that may lead to any misrepresentation of a vehicle in the future."

    Obviously, the lawyers at PCA have WAY too much time on their hands if this is what they're sitting around talking about. The idea that they're incurring some sort of liability by providing these numbers should someone then re-stamp an engine case and sell a car as original, well, that's a fine example of over-cautious lawyering at it's worst.

    In the meantime, those of us restoring cars and using the Porsche data to reunite cars with their original drivetrains, we're screwed.

    Sara did tell me that there had been much internal discussion regarding this change and I got the distinct impression that not everyone at PCNA was loving this decision. Sara offered to share my concerns with the higher-ups and I'm in the process of writing a letter. I also told Sara that there were others who were also likely to disagree and who might want to share their thoughts. If that's you, you can write to Sara at coa@porsche.us. Be nice. She's a very nice person.
    Member # 2530
    My esses...
    1969 911S Soft Window Targa
    1970 911S Sunroof Coupe
    1973 911S Targa

  2. #2
    That sucks. Been like that with the early VWs for at least a decade, tho. Unless you provide the engine and trans you have in your car, they will only specify it was a 40 hp 1200cc or something to that tune.

    ~J~
    air cooled only

  3. #3
    Is it worth bypassing PCNA and go directly to Porsche - Germany for a COA? Do you think there is a Factory source for Pre-'79 COAs that is not so over-cautious lawyer CYA about this?
    Doug Dill

    1973 911E Coupe
    PCA #1987109761
    Early 911S Registry #548

  4. #4
    As an American, would I even be able to go to Porsche in Germany for a COA? Bigger question, is this PCNA decision happening worldwide?
    Member # 2530
    My esses...
    1969 911S Soft Window Targa
    1970 911S Sunroof Coupe
    1973 911S Targa

  5. #5
    I'm not a lawyer but it seems that all PCNA needs to do to avoid liability is require recipients of COA's to sign a hold harmless-type agreement so that PCNA cannot be sued over wrongful information on a COA or information that is used to mislead a party to a transaction.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Noah View Post
    I'm not a lawyer but it seems that all PCNA needs to do to avoid liability is require recipients of COA's to sign a hold harmless-type agreement so that PCNA cannot be sued over wrongful information on a COA or information that is used to mislead a party to a transaction.
    Preaching to the choir. This could all have been handled with a simple disclaimer on the order form. Write Sara and share our thoughts.
    Last edited by LiveFromNY; 06-27-2017 at 11:42 AM.
    Member # 2530
    My esses...
    1969 911S Soft Window Targa
    1970 911S Sunroof Coupe
    1973 911S Targa

  7. #7
    This has been Porsche policy in Germany for a couple of years now. I ordered my COA from Porsche AG in Germany 5 years ago and they explained to me that they don't give the engine and trans number away unless they are still matching. Reason is they want to prevent manipulation, i.e. changing the numbers of non-original aggregates back to original.
    Peter

    '68 911 Karmann Coupe

  8. #8
    Senior Member NZVW's Avatar
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    I sense a price hike on "matching numbered'' cars

  9. #9
    Senior Member 911T1971's Avatar
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    Same reason with the amag papers, which I helped to get for a few members.
    I got my papers 12 years ago w no problems, now the engine no. is usually blanked out.
    Karim / Registry member No.773
    www.karimnoureldin.net

  10. #10
    member #1515
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZVW View Post
    I sense a price hike on "matching numbered'' cars
    At least those with certifiable proof. I have really never understood the importance placed on these numbers, they were produced on an assembly line, and I say that as the owner of a "matching numbers" car. Don't even get me started on dated wheels!
    David

    '73 S Targa #0830 2.7 MFI rebuilt to RS specs

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