Nobody reporting fire at John Skoein's shop that destroyed 58 Speedster, 73 RS, and 73 RSR?
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Nobody reporting fire at John Skoein's shop that destroyed 58 Speedster, 73 RS, and 73 RSR?
fire at John Skoein's shop that destroyed 58 Speedster, 73 RS, and 73 RSR
(Does not bring up anything with google)
PM Motorsports on the corner of 34th Street and Stockton BoulevardQuote:
Originally Posted by Frank Beck
I hope that John's cars were not destroyed...although from the video it looks like everything inside would have been lost. I first met John Skoein around 91 when I walked into his shop looking for advice on a 73 RS replica for sale in the area. He showed me his RS, Speedster, and then uncovered the Signal Orange 73 RSR that was the Road & Track test car. He fired it up so I could hear it...awesome! He also had quite a collection of period parts...aluminum ducktails, IROC tail, OEM RS sheet metal, Fuchs wheels, MFI systems, aluminum engine lids, lots of 70's race parts. But to lose that RSR would be a real tragedy...many considered it to be the most original one in the world.
Video of the fire on KCRA News. Cannot really see anything, but its a big big fire. The news didn't say anything about casualties?
Mike:
I looked at several broadcasts and there were no casualties...and one mentioned the high end Porsche cars inside. It began around 4:30 am and was out in about 2 hours.
Try this . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2014/...in-sacramento/
Now we know that there was no energies, the loss of the RSR would be considerable to the community......... :(
- From Treffen '06
- PANO cover June 2001
Hello Just left John's Shop
OMG
What a shame...
That is sickening to look at
Very sad, hope there were no injuries.
There seems to be two threads with the same title & author! The other one began @ 1:10 PM
2 alarm fire.
I would delete one of the threads but I can't.
George, was there a speedester destroyed too?
This is like the Ventura train crash all over again. Tragic loss. Thank God no one got hurt including the firefighters. .....cliff
Frank have them merged, if possible
Threads merged.........
This is one of the, if not THE, saddest auto losses I've ever seen.........:(
+1, real bummer. Gled
There is no God
OMG that hurts to looks at. Thankfully no one was hurt, but DAMN. I can't imagine how the owner feels... :eek:
. . . it'll come back
There are people . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-of-a-RHD-2-2S
Speedster
Here is more of the OMG
Heartbreaking. What a loss!
Awful, just awful news and heartbreaking pictures...
Same sick feeling I got when Werkes burned a couple of years ago. Always very sad to see this kind of destruction.
http://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/2...classic-coach/
-Adam
Very sad news indeed ... what a loss! :(
My heart goes out to John. Impossible to imagine what he's going through right now. At least no one was hurt and hopefully the cars were WELL insured.
A very unpleasant reminder as to how cars are stored, insured, or even... heaven forbid, not insured. (Don't scoff; there are people out there who do not insure their cars at all!)
Personally I could not sleep well without fire suppression systems in all of our buildings.
George, perhaps you can let us know the origin of the fire after the investigation?
Awful news, what a loss!
Was there also a 2.7rs?
wow, what a loss. thats very hard to cope with.
Sad news, thankfully, the value of these cars is such, that I'm sure they will be resurrected.
A real loss for John and this community.
As far as I know,this particular RSR was the best example left and was the only complete original. I had the duty of inspecting the car for the buyer before John and it was an amazingly original car. Every part of the car was original and when I drove it, it was as if it was new and never driven in anger. I was told that it never raced and I believed it.
The rest of the cars could be rebuilt but the RSR example of originality is gone for good.
H
Quote:
Originally Posted by super9064
My heart goes out to John and to the rest of the Porsche community.
There is an old saying that goes something like this: "If you have a problem and it can be solved by money, you don't have a problem".
John's, and the rest of the Porsche community's problem, can not be solved by money!
John and the rest of the Porsche community have suffered a loss and can not be replaced, no way, no how!
What a terrible shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
John, my friend, words can not convey how much I feel for your loss.
Jim
Jim said it well.
John's loss is a loss to our whole community. So sad.
Just awful. Heart felt condolences. I cannot imagine how awful that must feel.....
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Weidman
A loss that cannot be replaced. My heartfelt condolences to all affected.
911 360 1008
This car was the STANDARD. The most original M491 EVER.
Mine, too. But --- like Frank says . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Breazeale
+10Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Beck
Life is short. And most of these cars will outlive us all. And if not? --- well . . . . that's what insurance is for
;)
As for 9113601008 . . .
Well . . . that prolly won't stop someone from tryingQuote:
Originally Posted by Jim Breazeale
Put it another way --- nothing's gonna end-up in a junkyard . . . or on eBay
The car's 'originality' may be gone, but --- if the VIN, production, and engine numbers are intact? (--- or NOT) . . . then whatever's left is all just 'raw material' for The Mother of All Restorations . . . something that a lot of other cars have already gone through . . .
. . . some more than once
;)
And if anyone's even a teensie-weensie little bit in doubt about how all that might turn out? . . . then just ask Tom Shaughnessy
;)
Meanwhile --- here's what to shoot for . . .
http://www.pbase.com/slidevalve911rs...r_sn9113601008
PS . . . and we've all checked/updated our coverages recently --- RIGHT?
You can't restore original.
How many people store their cars in a facility with a fire supression system? I have the usual industrial sprinkler system. I'm thinking it might be time to consider an upgrade.
Richard Newton
Fire Supression
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by 50/50
They're cars, not people, and I'm thankful no one was hurt. Nevertheless, the loss of a car like this one hits me harder because of what is represents on every level. I groaned for a while when I saw this yesterday. My heartfelt condolences to the stakeholders—those with ownership, whether actual or that bit each of us feel.
pete
This is so depressing.
Speechless.
I know John probably has resources, but I'll offer my Celette up for that one.
There is another absolutely original, unrestored 2,8L RSR still in first ownership in the Bad Homburg area near Frankfurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Weidman
+1, sorry for the loss. Can't help wonder what happened...Quote:
Originally Posted by stout
There are many to claim they are/were as nice but as I said "As far as I know".Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianS
Would like to see the one you are speaking of though.
Now it may be the most original....
H
I've seen photos of this red car and it really seems exceptional, original paint, not raced, one owner, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Weidman
Pics from local Porsche owner.
I've never seen Sigi's RSR either, just John's Signal Yellow one that was lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Weidman
The photo above is heartbreaking... :(
Years ago I lost a much smaller (literally) collection to arson. I had a large and very rare set of Mattel Hot Wheels from 1968 to 1973, including many irreplaceable prototypes. It depressed me for a long time (almost like losing a family member). Eventually, I got over it. That said, I still think about it over 10 years later. Bottomline, no one got hurt in the fire and that's ultimately what's most important here. Hope the owners have a good support group.
Heartbreaking images. Perhaps only rivaled by the EC train crash from a few years ago.
Peter,Quote:
Originally Posted by 72targa
You Did Not just compare a Hot Wheels collection to this?
Hopefully that will make John smile.
You know when this kinda stuff happens, I always read "its only a car" or, "it's only _____". But it's not. Things like this are a direct representations of the labor, and intelligence of man in a specific arena. Some things aren't just things. People have a need to leave their mark. We all know we're going to die, but what we do here has potential for immortality and we know that. It's important that the things we do are remembered, and archived. When something important like this disappears forever, its truly sad. It's not just a thing that disappeared, but the proof of concept is gone. The physical representation of the labor of the men who conceived and built it is gone. There's always photos, but that's only one of our senses. The rest now experience what was lost in a vacuum. So...to me it's not "just" a car....
Just the response of my brain to the loss of a beloved collection...Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Beck
PS - Bought my wife an Escalade with the insurance proceeds.
I first learned of this fire on the RG site, and immediately came here.
I am in that helpless feeling of s-h-o-c-k, and like so many others remarked, I am also glad nobody was hurt. This looked like this was a bad, bad fire.
First I wanted to cry and then puke when I saw the pics of the fire. Sooooo sad! That RSR was the best ever in my mind.
There are no words that can be said. Very saddened to hear this news.
When you spend years to build a collection, the loss is the same, whatever the subject or the financial value.Quote:
Originally Posted by 72targa
Too bad about the 2.8 RSR, and the others cars.
Proper Insurance and Fire Protection Systems are a must. Hopefully if they were customer cars they had their own insurance on them. I'm sure there are a number of restoration and repair shops that lack the proper protection for customer and personal cars. Hopefully some can be rescued and rebuilt.
I don't know how the car's professionals behave in US about insurance. In Switzerland, I know that these guys (mechanicals especially) put money on the tools, the company, the parts, and old chassis to renovate, but not on insurances! Especially if they own a car since some years, which value increased so much last 12 months! Imagine the rate of a car insurance for ... 2 millions $! A car you could have buy a year ago for the half. And a 1/10 15 years ago. If John Skoein own this beauty (2.8 RSR, what else...?) since the 80's, as it seems to be the case, I'm afraid the insurance's value didn't match the actually market's price!!!
I hope I'm wrong, but the loss is big: first for the historic of the brand, second for the passion of the owner, third for his car's collection and fourth for the money! As a pure fan of 2.8 RSR I'm really sad and I hope John Skoein will carry on and rebuild the car. Goof luck to him and best wishes from Switzerland
Damn that is depressing. Does make you think about the proper way to store a vintage car, these cars are not replaceable.
Phil
FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU.......
Fire takes no prisoners. I'd rather have the building collapse than have it burn...
Such a tragedy. I hope HE recovers from this. Some people never do. :(
With a fire it's usually both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr9146
Truth ... sad truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Beck
Although, here in California it's very possible to have one without the other.
What a shame to see all those cars...
John
Most of the large collectors carry a blanket policy that insures all their cars under any and all conditions. It's not at all unusual to load $100 million worth of cars into a truck when heading to Pebble Beach or Monterey. The trucking companies don't insure cars at that level but the owners know that. That's why they cary the blanket policies.
It's people at our level (normal people) that have to worry. Is your car really insured when it's in a shop? By whom? Have you even thought about this? It might be time to update your insurance. How much do you have your 911S insured for?
You might want to change the stated value after the Monterey auctions. Just saying.
Richard Newton
My insurance called me the other day to tell me the value of my car went up, and so was my insurance....
In France, a specialist for Porsche Classic at the highest level told me that the insurance companies doesn't want him to have too much cars in his showroom anymore. When I visited him last year he had at least for 25 millions € cars in his small shop! He had to split his client's cars in different places!
Its really bocoming a real problem, since the prices have gone up, so have the insur, but if you have several cars worth more than a million it does create a big problem.
We all want to have them insured, but its easier said than done..
No amount of insurance can cover a loss of this magnitude..
I attended a concours at Rocklin Niello Porsche a decade ago or so. I remember being tickled when I saw John trailer in his RSR (he rarely took it out to stuff like this).
He parked right next to my car. At the time, the new GT1 cars were out and available on ebay for $300,000 or what ever used. People were hovering all over the GT1 all day.
I remember thinking, 90% of this crowd has no clue....they will some day. Me, and maybe a few others were all that even got the enjoyment of seeing John off load this RSR. Every bit of that cars movement was special to me. From firing it up, to letting it idle and warm up, to staging it. You really can't put into words or pictures how original that car was. only a time machine could get you closer to 1973 than that cars preserved condition, sound and smell. What it was, was very special, yes it can be restored, but it's very soul is gone forever. RIP.
I prayed the car was at John's private residence when I woke to the local news about 'a tire shop fire'.
Any news on how John is doing and the origin of the fire?
Great story...Quote:
Originally Posted by car-reras
I've had real RSRs in the shop and people just walk right by and look at the Boxster with shiny wheels.
You can insure anything. All of the jet liners that have gone down in the past few months are insured for replacement value. It's usually a consortium of companies in the car of airlines.
In NASCAR most teams carry a $5 million dollar policy on the hauler and it's contents.
If you have an enclosed trailer do you have a fire suppression system in the trailer? Think about this - they only run a few hundred dollars.
Richard Newton
Yes we do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardnew
I have seen WAY too many wheel bearing/tire fires take out entire rigs.
Silly not to make this investment.
Another great sleep enhancer is "STP". Storage, Transport, Paddock insurance. Covers race cars for everything except actual track time.
John is an old friend of mine and I probably talk to him more than my wife - face it he's my mechanic. I've chided him for years about the condition of his building which had more issues with rain leaks which had caused some structural damage to his roof. A couple of times I had carpenters come in and reinforce the roof structure above the area where the RSR and RS were stored.
I got a call last Friday morning from a friend and mutual customer of John's who had a race car and 72 S in the shop telling me John's shop was on fire. I hopped in my car and got there before John did. His son works at a shop a block away and he was in total shock. John showed up and said 40 years of his life went down the drain. We spoke with the fire department captain that led the firefighting efforts and he said that with the older fire sprinkler systems they aren't effective in this type of fire. He said they tried to make three charges against the flames and each time the fire got above and behind them and they had to get out. The fire fighting was complicated by power lines that run along the back of John's shop and a large substation across the alley. The building was over 100 years old. I don't know when the fire sprinkler system was installed, but he told us the older systems aren't effective, especially since the pipes were made out of cast iron. I spent all day Friday and Saturday working with John to get the cars and whatever we could salvage out, and you could see all of the joints of the fire sprinkler pipe were shattered, which means they broke as the structure collapsed. The building is a total loss, we have no idea what to do with the cars yet. If you have any ideas I will forward them to John.
You can see some of the damage the heat of the fire did - the engine shown is to my '72 T. I t was waiting fir a rebuild - the magnesium transmission case vaporized, along with every fan housing in the building. The car on the rack was a pristine '69 S, you can see how the wheels melted. Plus the pics of the RSR as we found it, with the roof structure collapsed on it.
The fire department said the fire was deliberately set, most likely due to some homeless people that were is the area the night before. The building was very secure - which the fire department noted slowed down their entry to fight the fire, but there was a corner of the building that had damage to the stucco the the fire inspector thought someone could have thrown a cigarette or some other lit object in there. It was confirmed that's where the fire started. I had recently look at the area with the RSR with John and agreed everything look safe, we both never thought to think about an outside source starting a fire.
I don't think there is any way to describe John's mental state, he is still in shock. Every time we talked about the Speedster I though he was going to tear up. We talk often about the value of the cars, and made it clear he would never let the RSR go. Will keep you all posted
Dave Higgins
Attachment 300117Attachment 300118Attachment 300119Attachment 300120Attachment 300121
Whoa.......
Chillingly sickening Dave.........
Best to you and John........
Dave,
Gulp...
Thanks for sharing this info. We're NOT just a bunch of rubber-neckers; on the contrary, we're a community who shares a kindred spirit and the deep pain that John and his family have to be experiencing right now. Granted, this is just stuff and no one was hurt but there's still a grieving process involved.
Please let us know how we can do anything as a community or individually to help. Thanks again for updating us.
Dave, I sent you a PM....
Aaron
Sweet Hayzu. Looking at those photographs, I can't but help feel like a voyeur rubber necking by a multi car pile up.
What a shame...
John
That's heartbreaking. I feel for him. On a smaller note, my buddy built up a 924 Carrera GT replica many years ago. He did a great job on the car and would have been a great head turner. The night before it was due to go to the paint shop it was lost in a barn fire.
I really hope that everyone survives this loss intact: it is a real shame to lose such cars.
However, from a technical perspective, I would like to know what happens to the inherent strength of the metal in these chassis when they are subject to such extreme temperatures?
I am not a metallurgist but thought that it would weaken the metal to the point where it is unusable? I would appreciate some insight here from people who know about such things!
Thanks...
It is never good.
http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/pro...Properties.htm
Sadly, in the US, business insurance is largely a criminal racket. In a situation like this the typical company will 1.) deny the claim and 2.) cancel the policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
I hope this is an exception, but recognize that no amount of insurance money can make that RSR original again. Nor the other cars; nor the 40 years of work. So sad.
I suspect that this is going to end up in court for years. First we have the question of the owner's insurance. Then we have the question of the shop's insurance. Sometimes your insurance may reimburse you and then they go after the shop's insurance company. Once the lawyers get involved it gets really messy. I suspect we're talking about well over a million dollars here. Easily.
Richard Newton
scum of the earth. nearly speechless over it. rare for me.Quote:
The fire department said the fire was deliberately set, most likely due to some homeless people that were is the area the night before.
I am speechless and sad...
This is not right.
Seeing the orange RSR at RGruppe Treffen in Sonoma 2006 makes this feel like loosing something personal... : (((((
Remember this car and Eades RS fireing up parallel...
I STILL HEAR IT!!!!
Good moments - now added with a very bitte note...
...Th.
lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardnew
What it this, an Austin Powers movie?
Try $4/5M+ just in cars. Then throw in customer's engines, parts, etc. on top of that.
This is a shop owner's worst nightmare.
Restoring the RSR would be like, stuffing Trigger.......RIP.... maybe the other signifigant cars too!
Excellent Cliff!
I know a number of Ferraris that were restored around the chassis plate. These cars will all be restored. Maybe not by the current owner but by someone. Especially the RSR.
Last year I was looking at a Lola T70. I had a Lola guru check it out for me. He reported back that "the chassis plate is authentic."
Richard Newton
If the metallurgy checked out on the chassis....it would still be more original than some RSRs. I've got a call into a friend...
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 and on to infinity. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Beck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat Six, inc.
the question is, if it doesnt, will someone still buy it and resto it. I hope not.
Maybe these guys will try.
http://www.gasmonkeygarage.com/
In an international market and with cars of a 'special' significance, such extensive rebuilds are entirely possible and certainly not without precedent. Both of the cars in the story below were rebuilt and FIA recognised afterwards. (Almost) anything is possible. Our individual opinions may be varied and all equally valid but the wider World spoke on this a long time ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeK
Attachment 300609
Attachment 300610
Attachment 300611
Big shame this,sympathy to the owner.
I for one hope its restored back to its former glory,it will never be what it was,but hopefully rebuilt using the original tub.
I have seen some 906 with a lot less left after fires,that are now well forgotten about and being enjoyed once more.
Good luck to the owner.
Article titled Car Damage, Insurance, and Agreed-Value Policies
'. . . The Internet photos show that the RSR was a total loss. Once the shop owner's insurance carrier pays the claim, the insurance carrier becomes the owner of the burned-out Porsche.
. . . Insurance carriers know how the hobby works ---- the wreck has value because it is what is left of a real RSR, and most anything can be restored. It won't be original any longer, and it won't be numbers-matching any more, but it should end up with greater value than the cost of restoration in today's market . . .
. . . The owner can then restore the car himself ---- and even make a profit, assuming he gets into it all at the right price and the market stays hot . . .'
p33
Zombie Porsche?
Another thread . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...Car-Shop-in-MA
The cleanup was hard on the mind. I was the only one smiling, and that was just instinct when someone points a camera at you.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRanger
---Adam
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc
Hey, Adam . . .
Brutal
And I wondered how the Sacramento Thing turned-out?
. . . and I'm still waiting for 9113601008 to turn up . . .
. . . somewhere
You can see the full array of photos on my blog:
https://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/...classic-coach/
Another threade . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Miller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Miller
A map view of 34th and Stockton reveals 2 hydrants.. One silver directly by the building.
If they were out of maintenance and defunct, does not the municipality share in the liability..?
There was a hydrant directly next to the fire in MA, but the fire company was busy trying to get water from the creek down the street. The fire inspector had always yelled at the shop owner to keep the hydrants clear, but the fire company said they hadn't worked in years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by klondike
Every time my insurance comes due . . . . . I remember this
Any üpdates?
.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRanger
Ugh.
^ This is just painful to look at.
Could this be the RS mentioned in this thread?
"In 2014, a huge fire engulfed a famous California Porsche workshop. Many classics were lost in the blaze. Amongst the casualties was a 1973 911 Carrera RS: an original Viper Green example. The bodyshell had suffered distortion due to heat and the paint and trim was all but destroyed. The worst damage was above the waistline, caused by heat and flames blowing across the car rather than a fire engulfing the structure. Although the RS was damaged, it was definitely repairable."
https://www.tuthillporsche.com/blog/...istmas-part-2/
Attachment 480646
Attachment 480647
-Scott
Valuable serial number. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by smclaughlin
I truly believe the village whore can someday make a fine wife if properly redeemed but if that is in fact the same car would someone pay retail for it? Heat causes strange things to sheet metal and changes it forever.
It would take fortitude and chutzpah to ignore all of the pointing and cupped whispers.
I believe the car in post #107 was a '73 RSR (vs. RS)...
I agree - that picture in post #107 looks like the orange RSR, but in the 2014 reports on the fire an RS is also mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by 72targa
"We took advice on some points: for example, making sure welds in certain areas were to the not-so aesthetic but authentic factory standard. Such small details are important when working with historic machines."
Seriously? Kind of funny why they, rightly so, went to this effort for the welds but didn't take the time to paint the car correctly. The trunk, interior and underside of the car should look much differently. Instead it looks just like every other shiny restoration.
Attachment 480734
Love the BMW fuel cell lol
Agree Brian. Having said that Tuthill are long established business in UK and have afaik a good reputation in Porsche community having done work for David Richards/Prodrive neighbours back in the day on the Rothmans SCRS (among many others) I'd say they are probably better known for (historic) rally racing preparation work/participation/support than doing detailed authentic restoration of Porsche roadcars.Quote:
Originally Posted by fryardds
Tuthill continued work for Prodrive including during the legendary Subaru WRC period so they're a quality outfit. If I had a classic rally car they'd be high on my list but I've not used them personally.
Steve
Any Porsche of note can and should be brought back from a horrific mess if possible. Remember when they found 550-0001 in a shoe factory in Guadalajara? Very little was left, but what was left was the first Spyder. It is now fully restored and the Porsche world is a better place for it.
You can read the full story here:
https://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/...-giant-killer/
May be,just may be the owner specced like this to be used rather than polished or inspected by some concours judge ,to use on our unforgiving roads,i have used tuthills and competed against them many times,a great company going from strength to strength.
Great job it’s survived and to be enjoyed again,hopefully the rsr will rise again also.:)
Since ChrisSeven isn't here anymore (sure he would have explained it thoroughly, with data), here is a good lecture:
https://www.steelconstruction.info/F...ural_steelwork
It's for hot rolled steel structures, just worst for cold rolled steel...
As I guess that in a fire like that temp remains below 600°C (looks like the fuchs are still in one piece on a previous picture) so, there COULD be some steel weakening in such case (should with cold rolled), and I hope they carried some hardness tests all over the tub before resurrecting it.
Anyway, I would be really suspicious if I had to put my bottom in a fire damaged car, and drive it fast (which I can't anyway)
Olivier.
Which VIN number is the viper green RS? Funny they say it was a very original car, weren't all cars very original when they left the assembly line? X ray the VIN number, do know what to make out of that statement.
Cees
Cees I suspect that they brought in Mark Waring or someone similar to use the special forensic Xray (or whatever it is) machine to make sure that the VIN had not been restamped at some point in time - ie it was wearing the vin that had been originally stamped into it before they started the restoration (there are far too many "RS's" and others that dont appear to be wearing the vin that the shell was born with these days :mad: )Quote:
Originally Posted by fourteenten
I always find it puzzling that a "great" shop sees the need to promote themselves. And in this case possibly at the expense of this RS owner. Once this VIN becomes public (and it will), the value of this car will be diminished. Now if the proprietor of Tuthill owns the car he certainly has the freedom to expose its ravaged past. But the optics still scream self promotion.
Obviously our culture doesn't value humility as it once did.
Doubt it is X ray, more likely magnetic, like NMR or MRI based measurement, nuclear magnetic resonance. https://regulaforensics.com/en/produ...n_number/7505/
Cees
The nearest 'VIN Checker' to Tuthills would be Neil Bainbridge at BS Motorsport. The process is described as "scanning" the VIN to detect "metallurgical differences".Quote:
Originally Posted by fourteenten
It's not NMR or MRI. It is basically the same technology used to read magnetic tape or conventional disk drive. Even when you rerecord over an audio tape, there is a remnant of the previous ferromagnetic signature (which is why you can also recover data on a disk drive unless a very, very sophisticated magnetization scrambling procedure is used. The magnetic domains have memory that is hard to completely wipe out. So even if someone altered the old VIN, there will be a tell. And of course if a different VIN panel was welded in, that's easy to detect.
You are right, I was wrong...the device does not create a stong magnetic field, would be too dangerous anyway. There is a market for this, suddenly we hear about cars come the that did not have the original engine and now after resto they are matching!
I am not sure how long 9113601008 has been a Friesinger's but "restoration" is well under way by looking at this
It is hard to see properly but it looks like the body shell apart from the roof structure etc was relatively unscathed - but it is not clear if the photos of the vin and production number and other parts in reasonable condition are before or after any major work was done on them
https://www.freisinger-motorsport.de...ail/10011.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRanger
Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH
Not sure it would matter
I still remember the Toad Hall car . . .
https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...l=1#post897573
I'm just curious who owns 9113601008, now?
........
Great to see it’s survived,as you say main tub looks good and some of the detail looks right.Interesting no strengthening plates welded in The engine bay corners from the factory!Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH
Attachment 609782
Attachment 609783
Attachment 609784
Attachment 609785
Attachment 609786
Attachment 609787
impressive
I didn't know they made Speedsters so early at Porsche :)
This magneto-optical procedure is a good way to identify re-stamping after grinding off the stamping for the VIN number switch.Quote:
Originally Posted by fourteenten
To assess the originality of the chassis, I would recommend the following approach for high-value vehicles:
1. Magneto-optical process to detect re-stamping after grinding off a VIN number - non-invasive
2. X-ray spectroscopy of
- metal sample of the VIN stamp area and
- metal sample of the trunk floor panel and
- metal sample of the dashboard
The results of X-ray spectroscopy should be compared with each other and with verified time period metal sheet samples.
The metallurgical compositions of automotive sheets have changed over the last 60 years, which can be detected by X-ray spectroscopy, but it is an invasive process.
No doubt, a couple of restored cars would fail this test.
BR
Claudius