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Thread: Hmmmmmmm

  1. #1

    Exclamation Hmmmmmmm

    I posted this over on the Pelican site, but I want your guy's input also. Thanks Jeff

    This is a long post, but I need advice and you guys are the best!As some of you know, I was to be the proud owner of a '72 911S Targa today. Well, it didn't happen and I want you all out there to reply and let me know what you think of this situation. I found this 911 through Hemmings. The car is in PA and I am in OH (GO BUCKS!!). The owner sent me pics and answered all of my questions promptly. I offered him $11k on his asking price of $14.5k. The ad read that the car had weak paint and interior, but ran strong and was rust free. My offer was countered to $11.5 but I had to take it without a PPI, however I would have the option of walking away after looking and driving the car. I went this Friday to look at the car and it was NOT as advertised. The top leaked like a sieve. The front windshield seals leaked and water was coming in through there also. On the passenger side, the water had been standing long enough for mold and mildew to form on the seat and under the carpet. There was a sopping wet rag left in the back seat....it was literally dripping wet when I picked it up. Also not mentioned, was a 9 inch by 6 inch dent near the driver's side mirror that had a 9 in perpendicular crease in it. This spot was devoid of paint, like it had completely flaked off and nothing was left except bare metal that was now covered with surface rust. The engine ran well, but the tach would bounce around after revving the motor (bad cable I think). The oil temp gauge was not represented as faulty, but when I got there I was told it was bad. The tranny seemed balky to me. I haven't driven that many 915 equipped cars, but it didn't feel right to me. The trans would grind in the 1-2 shift and when shifting into first from neutral after stopping. It sounded to me like a possible synchro. Also the 2-3 shift was horrible. When I shifted it into third, I had to use what I considered to be excess pressure on the stick to get it into gear, other wise it would jump out of gear. Shifting into any of the gears felt really sloppy, not tight, nor smooth, but very vague. I ended up walking away from the deal. What really irked me was how this guy really misrepresented the car's condition, then had the nerve to get personal with his attacks when it came time to leave. I had my four year old son with me and he wanted to know why the owner acted like that. When I told him he was mad at me, he said he (the owner) needed to grow up! How true. So, did I do the right thing by walking away, or am I wanting too much for too little? I guess I was caught a little of guard by so much being wrong that wasn't disclosed up front. Thanks in advance. Jeff

  2. #2
    Senior Member curtisaa's Avatar
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    Too bad...

    It would be a stretch to believe that you could purchase a '72 S Targa for the $11,500.00 price. I just recently purchased the same year Targa and paid quite a bit more, however the car I purchased did not any of the issues you mentioned. I can understand the " I got a deal" mentality, but it usually doesn't work out. It's too bad about your excursion, but keep at it, you'll find the right car soon....

  3. #3
    Jared Rundell - Registered User JCR's Avatar
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    The price is not unreasonable for an S from what you describe, but if you feel the car was misrepresented you should not feel guilty for walking away.

    I went through this many times before I found my cars, especially when I lived in So Cal and was looking for a nice 356. I expect it as part of the game you learn to try to do all you can to avoid it before investing time and $.

    Some sellers must think your emotions will take over upon seeing a car and just lift that checkbook from your pocket, despite what your brain tells you.
    Jared
    '73 911S #0793
    '69 912_ #0602
    Early S #0454
    RGruppe #0391

  4. #4
    I'm sure you read my post on Pelican...
    Paul D. Early S Registry #8 - Cyclops Minister of West Coast Affairs
    "Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have the radiator in the front, that's not very intelligent." -Ferry Porsche (PANO, Oct. 1973)

  5. #5

    To Walk Away

    I'm out in the Hollywood Hills, so my opinion may be affected by the general lack of rust around here, but...

    You did the right thing to walk away. First of all, any time that I have seen a car misrepresented to anyone, there were usually more problems to be discovered with it upon deeper inspection. It sounds like this car was going to be quite a project to get it where it needed to be, and that's hard enough when you start on the right foot with it. It's history sounds more than a little shaky.

    On the other hand...it's always nice when one of the good guys gets his hands on a real S and can afford to bring it back to its glory days. That's what I'm in the process of doing right now. However, I drove E's for a couple of years while I looked for the right deal on the right S. (And by the way...I had to be patient, because I had limited $.)

    Long story short is that I bought a great 72S Coupe, a never-any-rust west coast car with a real factory RS engine in it, and I was able to trade my E and a reasonable amount of $ for it. Yeah...it had needs. Yeah...it wasn't perfect. But man oh man...was it exactly what I wanted and then some, as well as being the S that I could afford to re-glorify as time & $ permitted.

    I say that these cars are so special, that if you are compelled to walk away from a deal on one...then you SHOULD. You will find the right S for you.

    Here's my ride. I didn't pay too much more for this one:
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  6. #6
    Goldmember ttweed's Avatar
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    Re: To Walk Away

    Originally posted by Cain DeVore
    Here's my ride. I didn't pay too much more for this one:
    That's a nice looking '72S, Cain. Sounds like you got a smokin' deal. Have fun with it.

    TT
    Tom Tweed
    Early S Registry #257
    R Gruppe #232
    Rennlist Founding Member #990416-1164
    PCA National DE Instructor
    Read my surf novel!

  7. #7
    Early 911S Registry # 237 NeunElf's Avatar
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    I don't want you to construe this as defending somebody who materially misrepresented a car in a Hemmings ad, but I think you made a mistake by trying to negotiate a price BEFORE looking at the car. In effect, you're asking the seller to "negotiate with himself" by reducing his asking price to get you to take a look at it. If you still need to look, you aren't really making an offer.

    It seems you compromised with a notion that your negotiated price would stick, leaving you with a buy or walk away choice and limited inspection.

    My recommendation is to look at the car before discussing price, then make an offer you really mean. Even if you are willing to pay far less than the asking price you are at least saying to the seller that there won't be any games.

    I followed this practice: I spotted a '65 911 with an asking price of $12.5k, I think. After looking over the car, I told the guy the best I could offer was $8.5k. We had a deal in about a tenth of a second.

    If you had driven from Ohio to PA without pre-negotiation, you would have had the option of offering say, $7k if you thought the car was worth that to you. And, you might even have had yourself a deal.

  8. #8
    Cain, Is that Carlos old car? If it is you got a great!!! deal. His car was originally silver I think. Any thoughts on a color change? I do love Light Ivory on early cars however.
    Bobby
    71' Olive 2.2E Targa / Early S #491

    I've always considered the glass to be half full...that is until I reached middle age and realized that it is actually half empty.

  9. #9

    Silver 72

    Hey Bobby.

    Yeah...good eye! Not only did I get a great car & a great deal, but I got it from a great guy. Carlo has been nothing but a stand-up enthusiast who has become a great ally & friend. He's very smart, has a great family, and loves these cars. I'm sure that if it wasn't for his commitment to his family...he'd still have the 72S. He was pretty attached to it, which I now totally understand...it's got great bones, great soul, and that really great factory 2.7 heart. My plan is to simply finish what Carlo started, which...yes...includes returning the car back to its original silver paint. I too love the lines on these early cars in the white (Cris Huergas' 69S is one of my favorite cars). However, when I was a kid back in the 60s and early 70s, my favorite Porsche color was silver. Still holds true today.

    I'm glad that you asked, because I was out of town for the holidays, and I owe Carlo a signal.

    I'll see you and your 72 soon.

    Cain
    _______________

    1972 911S Coupe
    R-Gruppe # 212

  10. #10
    Cain,

    Very nice car! What's the wheel/tire combo?
    Greg DuPertuis

    '72 911T
    TrackVision
    Leesburg, VA

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