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Thread: How Rare (important) is a Match??

  1. #1

    How Rare (important) is a Match??

    Hey, just curious. Someone said to me that a car with Matching Numbers is really rare. Considering that this is such an important thing that everyone is looking for, I really wonder how rare it is.

    My car is Numbers Matching, but I kind of fell into it. What is the additional value in a Numbers Matching vs. No-Match?

    Any comments?

    Early 911S Registry Member #537

    73 - Viper Green 911E Targa - Kermit - Gone but not forgotten

    Kermit's Short Story and Pix on the 911E Website

    06 - Lexus IS250 MT6
    98 - Volvo 70V XC

  2. #2
    I don't think numbers matching is all that rare. Sure, there's been a lot of engine swapping over the years and it's seemingly getting more prevalent. But, I think most people who have had rebuilds done have gotten thier same motor back. Unless someone has swapped in a newer and bigger motor, I would be wary of a non correct engine and look deeper into the car for other signs of a reconstruction. It's only my opinion, but I think the majority of the cars are tooling around with the same lump in the back that came in it.

  3. #3

    Arrow It's a concours thing

    It's probably more difficult to find a non-numbers-matching car than a matching-numbers one. To have them not match means someone has swapped in a different motor, at some point. Most owners can't afford to do this.

    Other than being an indicator (one of many) of how the car's previous owners valued originality, I can't see it being a significant factor at all, outside of concours competitions. The exception would be with the collectible models (the 911S, 911ST, 911R and the Carrera RS and RSR).

    Numbers-matching T? Outside of one that's never been scratched, and is making the concours circuit, who cares? I'd pay more attention to compression and leakdown numbers, or how recently the engine and tranny had been rebuilt, and how long it had been since things like the suspension bushings had been replaced.

  4. #4
    Slow Out RSupdate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Surf City USA

    Thumbs up

    I whole heartedly agree with Jack. I can't add a thing to it.

    You spoke my piece of mind quite well ...

    Johnny Riz
    73E euro 3.2 w. a few goodies
    Rgrp 152
    S Reg 335

  5. #5
    I understand the reasons matching #s are important.
    I enjoy seeing and hearing about the preserved cars, completely intact seemingly as pure as the day they first rolled out of the factory.

    Imho if my car had matching #s and it was an important part of the cars appeal or value, then spirited driving or tracking the car would be difficult. I would not want to risk damaging a matching #s engine case with a mis-shift over rev or other engine catastrophe.

    As you can tell when I'm looking to buy a Porsche paying a premium price for a car with matching #s is not important. I'd rather pay less and not have the liability of preserving 30 year old sports car parts. Again I do enjoy seeing and hearing them in action!!!

    My 86 Turbo Look has matching #s but I never considered that until posting this.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Fremont, CA

    Re: It's a concours thing

    Originally posted by JackOlsen
    Most owners can't afford to do this.

    Not to be a prick, but where did this lovely piece of information come from?
    scott kinder

    Registry #614

    9110220587 - 1973 RSR revival in progress
    My Car Thread: "Five-Eighty-Seven..."
    “If it isn't there, it didn't cost anything, it doesn't weigh anything and can't break." - From the philosophy of Grady Clay

  7. #7
    Originally posted by YTNUKLR
    Not to be a prick, but where did this lovely piece of information come from?
    The information that most 911 owners can't afford to swap in a different motor?

    Maybe we're thinking about this in different ways, but most owners of all cars, 911's included, do whatever maintenance is required to keep the car running. And most early 911's run well enough, during their chassis' lifespan, that they don't need a rebuild so extensive that it requires somebody else's bottom end.

    I wasn't talking about swapping in larger-displacement motors. I'm just saying that of the 100,000+ early cars produced, most are simply maintained until they rust out. Most owners aren't going to spring for an 8K rebuild or a swapped motor. Enthusuasts like us are not the norm.

    Mismatching numbers provide evidence that a car that got more attention than most. It's just that once the serial numbers are out of alignment, some prospective buyers will lose interest.

  8. #8
    Slow Out RSupdate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Surf City USA

    Thumbs down Re: Re: It's a concours thing

    Originally posted by YTNUKLR
    Not to be a prick..........

    Nice noun selection.
    Johnny Riz
    73E euro 3.2 w. a few goodies
    Rgrp 152
    S Reg 335

  9. #9
    Jared Rundell - Registered User JCR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Birmingham, MI
    I wouldn’t necessarily call a numbers matching early 911 a rare thing, but nice original cars definately aren’t plentiful. With so many cars rusted, wrecked, or modified when they were just out of current fashion “used cars”- and more people now realizing how special they really were - it’s all about supply and demand.

    Originality is important to some, higher performance levels with modern upgrades important to others. There’s no right or wrong, but in the marketplace, originality is almost always the clear winner. Any car can be modified, but once originality is lost, its gone forever.

    Also gone forever are the defining characteristics of this grand automotive era, and what made Porsche a legendary marque... only to be remembered by the cars that rolled out the factory doors. The time warp cars are most representative, and therefore most desired.

    I consider the early 911 a work of art, representing a pinnacle of the sports car era - and the drive and passion of those who created it. As a car designer, I know firsthand how difficult it is to create a car with such timeless qualities. We call it an evergreen car, and there have only been a few cars that can truly wear that title.

    Call me a sentimental fool. But as I watched the “One For The Road” DVD I couldn’t help but imagine my car rolling down that assembly line. And dammit, I’m just happy to know the “lump” they deftly hoisted up into it’s tail is still there and kicking!

    Edit: here's a still from the scene (took me a while to get around DVD screen grab obstacles). Apologies in advance for any potential © issues.

    '73 911S #0793
    '69 912_ #0602
    Early S #0454
    RGruppe #0391

  10. #10
    USE IT.....OR LOSE IT swbsam's Avatar
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    Oct 2002
    So. Cal

    Re: Re: It's a concours thing

    Originally posted by YTNUKLR
    Not to be a prick, but where did this lovely piece of information come from?
    Jack keep in mind that Scott is one of your younger members
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