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Thread: Titling a classic.

  1. #1

    Titling a classic.

    Hi folks, I'm brand new to the Registry so I hope you will bear with me. I recently purchased a 1989 Turbo with 1400 miles from a collector in Colorado. She arrived as promised etc. with one exception, no current title. My seller purchased the car several years ago from a dealer in PA. He chose not to register the car in Colorado.

    To make a long story short I want to make the car legal in Missouri but they will not grant me a title without a title from my seller, who of course is very reluctant to at this point.

    I've tried to prod him but don't have much leverage, I've spoken to the dealer in PA but he won't/can't help either.

    Friends suggest that I just swap out plates when I drive it which will be fairly rare but I do want to protect myself down the road.

    Hence I'm looking for ideas, thoughts, suggestions from what I expect is a very experienced group of buyers.

    Thanks in advance.

    Joe Delleville

    2000 Boxster S
    1989 930 turbo
    1980 911 Weissach
    1971 911 E
    1971 914-6

  2. #2
    I think there's a way to do it through Alabama. Check Hemmings to see if they have an advertiser offering this service. If all else fails, I think the seller is obligated to provide clear title. (I'm not a lawyer...just playing one on this BB).

    Jack
    1972 911S- viper green
    1970 914/6- tangerine
    1967 Ferrari 330GTC- oro chiaro

  3. #3
    Technically Title and Registration are two totally different things... all vehicles are required to have a title in the state they will be operated or stored in but you are not required to have it registered except in a few odd cases. In California they have a classification you register the car in where it is not in use... but the Title is required no matter what because it is what shows legal owner. If someone gives you a car and does not transfer the TITLE to the car to you then they could file a police report against you showing they have the title to the car and you have the car and they want it back. Until someone gives you the title signed over to you then someone else legally owns the car no matter how many receipts and contracts and canceled checks etc you have... If the car is permanently stored it doesnt require a registration except in certain states where this is required no matter what. A registration is what gets you license plates and essentially a legal right to have the car on public highways assuming the operator meets licensing requirements themselves as well as carrying proper insurance to operate that vehicle in the state if required.

    Your collector should have gotten a title from the dealer (or individual) who sold it unless it is some sort of "salvage" vehicle which would still be reflected on a record of the vehicle somewhere. One of the reasons you are asked for the title to register a vehicle is so that it supposedly makes it harder for car thieves to sell stolen cars... it's what's supposed to stop people from stealing your nice low mileage porsche and selling it to someone else who wants to drive it around...

    I believe there is some sort of process where the VIN can be investigated in the state title was last issued in to determine the last recorded owner in that state and then if they can confirm they sold it a duplicate title can be generated in that state and it can be transferred to you. I know in several states I've lived in a duplicate title can be generated and then it can be transferred to you.

  4. #4
    oh... and if your car ever gets impounded like for example if you are swapping plates around.... which police would probably do if you got pulled over for speeding in the radar magnet and you dont have a registration that matches the VIN number on the car then you need the title to show proof of ownership or a current registration either one showing your name and VIN number to get the car back out of impound... otherwise eventually the state will auction your nice porsche off to the highest bidder and give them a title.... after the state confirms its not on a stolen vehicle list...

  5. #5
    Found the place that does the titles in Alabama...

    http://www.titlesunlimited.net/

    you got a problem though... you have a strike against you...

    Your car is a 1989... They only can title cars pre 1987.

  6. #6
    Originally posted by lbritish
    Until someone gives you the title signed over to you then someone else legally owns the car no matter how many receipts and contracts and canceled checks etc you have...
    That is correct. Without a title, how do you know he actually owns the vehicle? What if it was stolen and he purchased it? I can't imagine buying a vehicle without getting a title

    The person you bought it from needs to supply a title. He should be able to do so without registering the vehicle.

  7. #7

    Angry titling a classic

    Thanks for all your info. What I do have is a copy of the title from the owner before the dealer(so what?) and an original of the PA title noting the dealer as the owner but again, not transferred to my seller. Missouri has rejected this title as well. The PA dealer did confirm the sale & price that my seller paid so I have some mental peace that it is not a stolen vehicle.

    That being said I'm thinking of engaging a lawyer to try to force the issue with the seller. That is probably expensive & what I hope is the final option pending what advice I receive.

    Thanks again. Any lawyers out there?

    Joe Delleville

  8. #8
    Joe,

    I would threaten to call the State Attourney's Office for the State where the seller resides. It seems unlawfull to transfer the ownership of a car without a title. One should exist especially with a no stories 1,400 mile collector car. Something is not right. You could also force the issue by informing the seller you feel without a title the car may be stolen and you will be sending it back to him and notifying the local law. Point is rattle his cage and he will come up with a title or your money. Good luck.

    Best,

    Don

  9. #9
    You guys are too fluffy for me. This country needs more full-on redneck country-boy ass whippin's dealt out. Screw lawyers. A nice face to face with some good old Louisville "wood" works miracles.
    You want me and some of my kin to visit him? We always enjoy "preaching" a sermon on proper manners and how to treat folks with respect. Around here either you do or you get your ass kicked in. Folks in these parts don't take kindly to this kind of $hit.

    Now for the serious side:

    The downside is that you might have waltzed into a divorce case and he's got no papers because lawyers or his soon to be ex are holding the goods. He sold the car for cash to hide from the ex. Been there seen that. Unfortunately she might be smarter than him and you are now over the barrel because she is claiming it as community property and will get her pound of flesh.
    Another angle is he has creditor issues or the "tax" man has commeth. This ain't good either.

    A copy of a title is worthless. A local joker went to jail for selling cars out of trust and using copied titles as security to his STUPID creditors.
    He should have been put in the gray bar hotel for longer than he got , however, the dumb ass came out and lied about his assets to a Federal Judge and got some more time. Most crooked bastard I've met to date although I know some more whom I keep a close eye on.

    Do you have a bill of sale? Hold this POS up in court; file a suit for breach of contract . I admonish all of you to make sure you know who in the hell you are dealing with before you spend your hard earned money on a deal like this. If you are ever uncomfortable you should just walk away from the deal. Never and I mean never go into a purchase without the guts to stand up and leave.

    There is a routine here in my home state where you send a registered letter to the last know address stating that you are filing for a title. Get a return-receipt. Most states allow a minimum time to elapse and if nothing comes back you may file for a title. This is the case in Virginia. There are forms and a process but it works. I know.

    If you get a SSN on him you can find out anything you want to know if the right source gets to handle it. A PI comes to mind here.

    Lastly, do not waste time on this guy. Go for the throat and get it behind you. Life is way too short to run hurdles for what is rightfully yours.

    Good luck,

    Tom
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
    "Experience is the mother of wisdom" - idiom
    "Let them that don't want none, have memories of not gettin' any"- Brother Dave Gardner

    Early S Registry #235
    rgruppe #111

  10. #10
    My edjumacated guess based on the things you just said... it is confirmed as being sold to the guy you bought it from.... it is one of two things now...

    First the unlikely one...

    A) he got some sort of loan on it so there was a lein on it and he didnt pay it but he had it stored somewhere it couldnt be reposessed... the bank has the title....

    or the likely one...

    B) He is a shifty snake in the grass and he's trying to avoid paying his taxes which are due in his state of residence where the state usually learns about it when an application for title is submitted... so since he probably never filed it he has the paperwork from the PA dealer when it left there.... but he never turned in that paperwork to get his name on it meaning they dont know he bought said car and it never had the taxes paid on it meaning now.... 1) he owes sales taxes in his state for the purchase of a used 1989 Porsche... 2) He owes fines and criminal penalities for failing to notify the state of purchase of a vehicle either in state or out of state... if out of state purchase it's even more likely to be prosecuted cuz states hate people buying cars from other states cuz it's more paperwork for them....

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