Euro Turn Signals and Tail Lights - help me clarify some details.

[keith]

Happy New Year to Everyone.

After what feels like exhaustive searches on the Registry Forums, specific discussions with Ed Mayo, and scouring old photography on the internet, I feel like I've getting a handle on the differences between US and ROW (excluding Italian market) lighting on the 69-73 911. However, as I'd like to be able to restore them accurately for either market delivery, I'd like some input and clarification on the following "facts" (beliefs?)

PLEASE CORRECT MY TERMINOLOGY WHERE NEEDED (it is confusing reading through other posts on the subject due to varied and general terms used for the specific lights) I'd like to be as specific as possible, it’s the only way I can confidently know that I know something



The Front Turn Signals used the same housing across all markets (US, ROW, Italy)

• For the ROW configuration the Side Marker Light was disabled (base contact removed, power re-routed to Front Parking Light) and a ROW-specific flat internal reflector/lens was used over the socket (tighter, more ribbed pattern than the US octagonal-patterned internal lens.) This internal reflector/lens can be clearly seen from the side of the car through the clear amber portion of the turn signal lens cover on the ROW light.

• The middle socket on the ROW light is converted to single filament by relocating the base contact orientation (using lower screw mount on lower contact in plastic rear cover) and functions as a turn signal only, versus the dual filament configuration for the US light.

• The Front Parking Light on the ROW light is created in the housing with an additional inner divider wall that is assembled into the slot pre- existing in the light housing to create a separate bulb cell to avoid light bleed over into or from the center bulb location. The Parking Light Bulb is mounted into the divider wall and a concave reflector (wall? panel?) is mounted behind the bulb into two slots in the divider wall.

• ROW housings are finished in Matte or Satin White? US market housings have a silver reflective coating applied over the white base finish.

• The Divider Wall and Concave Reflector Panel are finished in galvanized steel? - Or the Silver Reflective Coating?



The Tail Lights used variations on the same housing for the different markets?

• From what I’ve been able to discern from old photos (particularly press release photos of the Carrera RS models) the ROW housing differs from the US housing in the Side Marker Light area: ROW housings do not have a concave bulb socket assembly for a Side Marker Light and simply have the gaping hole in the flat inner wall of the housing, whereas the US light does have a convex reflecting surface/socket in that location. The ROW light does NOT appear to use a flat internal reflector lens according to old photos I've seen on the internet (allowing the hole to be clearly visible outside of the car through the clear amber portion of the Tail Light Lens Cover) versus the US market configuration that DOES utilize an internal lens over the functioning socket/light.

• The ROW and US Tail Light Housings are identical in all other areas except color of finish: ROW are finished in Matte or Satin White (?) whereas US market housings have the Silver Reflective Coating applied over the white base finish.

• A confusing variation I saw while researching threads on the topic was what seems to be a ROW housing with Silver Reflective Coating on the Brake Light and Reverse Light cells of the housing (the remainder being the White finish) - Could this be a year-specific variation?

• Another confusing variation I noted when pouring over photographs on the internet was what looked like internal reflector lens being used on ROW housings on some of the early cars. Is it possible that this is simply a result of US market cars returning to Europe, or did some of the ROWs use an internal reflector lens?

I could not discern whether or not the ROW Tail Lights used the concave reflecting plate that divides the Turn Signal cell from the Side Marker Light area on the US-market variation.



Please chime in here and correct or verify anything you can. If it helps, I’ll be happy to dig up some photos that some of these observations are based on to help get to some definitive answers. Thanks in advance!

[keith]

After further examination of some Tail Light Housings here at the shop, it appears that I was mistaken about there being multiple housings for the different markets. It looks like the ROW housing is the same as the US, just without the concave Side Marker Light socket installed. Can someone confirm this?

(I'm editing above to correct that data.)

The drain hole does change location in later housings, however.

[beh911]

I thought you would have had some folks chime in by now. I've been curious about this topic as well so snapped a couple pics below.

My car is USA model but was changed out to Euro tail lenses back in the early 70s. I am assuming the assemblies weren't touched but don't know for sure without digging thru the documentation on the car. Do these assemblies confirm your research as being US market or otherwise?

I've always wondered about the side marker light as well. In the past I've studied numerous cars in pics--for instance the DDK Classic at the Castles thread, old factory lit, etc. One sees a variety of "empty side marker" tail lights and what appears to be "bulb filled" housings as well, sometimes next to one another.

Of course there's a variety of world market cars dispersed across the globe now after 40 years, not in their original markets, so hard to tell in modern day pics what's what.

Thoughts?

[keith]

Thanks for the reply! I also thought there would be more traffic on this one by now...

Your pictures look like some 1977 Carrera 3.0 (euro) housings I have here at the shop, except you have what I believe is the euro-market reflector lens that I've seen on the euro turn signals - which would possibly confirm that the euro tail lights DID use a reflector lens? That definitely is not the octagonal-ish lens pattern I've seen on US cars...

I believe you go the entire assembly when your car was converted - congrats!

Another great detail is the absence of the concave reflector plate that fits around the turn signal bulb on the US tail lights to separate the side marker light from the turn signal. Your housings have never had those - the little tab-like projections on the socket opening get peened to capture the reflector plate - yours are unmolested.

Thank you for those photos. Are your housings white in entirety? Every cell, and exterior of the housing also?

[Bill Simmeth]

Thanks for the reply! I also thought there would be more traffic on this one by now...

Nah, we now really only discuss the value of your car.

[keith]

Nah, we now really only discuss the value of your car.

nicely played.

[Harvey Weidman]

The Front Turn Signals used the same housing across all markets (US, ROW, Italy)

I though so too until I tried to install a LF ROW assy in a USA car a couple years ago...the wiring and reflector was different as I recall.
I'm pretty sure there are at least 3 front housings. USA, Italy and ROW.
The casting may be the same but there are differences....
Check the parts book and you'll find the different part numbers.
H

[37yrold911]

Is that the regular heavy pot metal housing painted white? Or is it a nice light weight plastic housing? if the latter, where can I get one?

[keith]

I though so too until I tried to install a LF ROW assy in a USA car a couple years ago...the wiring and reflector was different as I recall.
I'm pretty sure there are at least 3 front housings. USA, Italy and ROW.
The casting may be the same but there are differences....
Check the parts book and you'll find the different part numbers.
H

Absolutely - different configurations, but I believe the same castings/housings.

[keith]

OK, so now I need to source some of the euro reflector lenses for front and rear... Anyone across the pond have a line on these?