Are those handwritten notes saying the engine was 1968 911s with 170hp and fuel injected?
Are those handwritten notes saying the engine was 1968 911s with 170hp and fuel injected?
I would suspect an error since it is clearly a '69 engine number, not far from the replacement engine in 00009. And it was installed in Sept '69 prior to shipping to Peru. However, I once considered writing a book titled "WHAT THE FACTORY SOMETIMES ALWAYS DID" but I had too much information.
I don't believe I have shared this before. These are the three Ts for SCCA in '69. I understand these engines 901/16 had 46mm Webers, maybe not attached but included in the car along with 911R exhaust if that helps sort out where they fit into this sports purpose thread.
Excellent factory document, sanders.
S Reg's Smedley quoted:
One 911T/R was delivered to Kline VW/Porsche in Indianapolis. Mark Smedley, now a physician in Sacramento, Calif., was there when it arrived.
“I recall the car like it was yesterday,” Smedley said. “It had a simple roll bar. The interior was stripped and it didn’t have undercoating. In the trunk were a pair of 46 IDA Weber carbs, a special manifold and a Porsche Type R exhaust system.”
Wow!!
where do i start
Roy thanks for posting the kardex and especially the gearbox photo for 00004
There is a lot of interesting information there.... and more questions for me
And also thanks for that extra information on the 1969 T SCCA cars. That is also very interesting and great to see.
Starting with the kardex: the old saying that you learn something new every day was never more appropriate.
It looks like from that kardex (and the other information scattered around but particularly for 2 of the other GTS cars) that the race shop may have had its own numbering system for significant spare parts that were built up, and possibly reused between cars, like gearboxes. Presumably those gearboxes were built up on a blank case and then stamped in Werk1. I will have to start a separate list but as this one was numbered 46 presumably there are that number or more around, unless there is a code on them (say with 4 meaning something and 2 meaning something else which I suppose is possible).
Also looking initially at the handwriting on the kardex, I thought there was an error in describing the gearbox 9284107. 9284107 according to the spec book is a 901/74 type and that is how it is described on the kardex for 119300009. However the handwriting says 901/54 - still a Nurburgring set of gears but the different series representing (I think) made of a different material.
However looking at it closely I think that is actually refers to the spec of the replacement gearbox #46 as a 901/54 one, which raises another issue for me (although I cannot decipher the words after the 901/54).
Roy says that #46 is Mg - and it is always hard to tell from photos which is mostly how I have tried to decipher the material codes so far. IF so and IF the note on the kardex refers to that replacement gearbox I may have the notation 0 and 1 for Al and Mg respectively the wrong way around.
After a lot of backwards and forwards I had settled on the fifth digit 0 (ie 901/54) as Al and the 1 (901/74) as Mg. That distinction applies across the 1968 and 69 model years. There are so few original gearboxes of this sort around that it has been hard to find data points but the other gearbox, 9284109, in the thread Rower posted a link to also was aluminum and with a "1" and shown as 901/74 so that makes two clear data points suggesting i have the 0 and 1 designation the wrong way around. It would be great to know what material the gearbox in GTS 0009 was made of as If that was Al as well that would make enough data points to reverse my notations.
If the gearbox on the 69T SCCA car is still with it and was also Mg that would also confirm it.
Hugh Hodges
73 911E
Melbourne Australia
Foundation Member #005
Australian TYP901 Register Inc.
Early S Registry #776
It is interesting also to compare the letter from Porsche on the 69T's with the kardexes to see how "loose" sometimes the official letters are
On the specifications the states that the engines are all 901/16 but high performance tuned. The 901/16 was the USA T motor but as posted above the serial number on the engines on the kardex suggest a separate series of engines. maybe there were so few that they did not get another type number and maybe they couldn't have another type number as it would have ruled them out of the SCCA series. It would be interesting to know what was stamped on the case.
For the gearbox - 90/13 is clearly an error - it should be 901/13 as the generic number but was really a 901/79 one as described by both its serial number and the option 9041 on the kardex for nurburgring ratios.
The interiors were not identical according to the kardexes despite the letter saying that. Two of the cars (215 and 216) have code 9822 A LEAT. B against them which I think means black leatherette while the third shows a code i have never before seen on a completed car - "0000 without" implying that absolutely no interior was fitted to it - it painted shell only
Also i am not sure how to describe these cars - the T/R description (also used in that article) has always been associated only with 1968 cars. These are the same - but different so I am not sure that T/R is the best description. At this stage they SEEM unique so i wonder if they should be referred to as 911T SCCA a bit like the 1968 L's that raced in Trans Am are referred to as 911L Trans Am ??
Hugh Hodges
73 911E
Melbourne Australia
Foundation Member #005
Australian TYP901 Register Inc.
Early S Registry #776
I haven't been following this thread closely, but just to clarify...
The 901/70- series were 1969 model transmissions in aluminum housings.
The 901/80- series were 1969 model transmissions in magnesium housings.
The 911/80- series were 1970-71 model transmissions in magnesium housings.
Jon B.
Vista, CA
thanks Jon
That is the way I had them in my datasheet the 901/70 series being 739x0xx and the 901 / 80 series being 739x1xx numbers with the 0 signifying Al and 1 MG (and i think that I had the 69 ones from info from you originally)
I have presumed that the same pattern was used in 1968 with the 928 gearboxes with the low number 50 series with the "0" in the serial number being Al and the higher number 70 series (70 to 74) with the "1" in the number being Mg but maybe not... I probably need to see the actual 1968 ones and not extrapolate from the 1969 ones
Hugh Hodges
73 911E
Melbourne Australia
Foundation Member #005
Australian TYP901 Register Inc.
Early S Registry #776
Hugh, I think they purposely made this confusing to torment us :-)
I agree, for the 69 model transmissions only.
There were no mag housings nor /70- or /80- series 901 transmissions in the 68 model year.
The 901/70- series were 69 models only, in aluminum housings with axle flanges for the larger 69 CV joints.
The 901/80- series were 69 models only, in magnesium housings with axle flanges for the larger 69 CV joints.
Jon B.
Vista, CA
Hi Jon
But in 68 there were 901/5x (0-4) series and 901/7x (0-4) where the last number represented the gear set (ie 4 Nurburgring in both cases)
So there MUST have been a difference somewhere
If it is of any help all of the 911R's had /5X gearboxes but so did some T/R's, S's and L's BUT other T/R's L's S's as well as the 1969 GTS's had /7x ones
also 67 cars had /5X (0-4) as well.
I have a list of at least 11 1968 vin cars with 901/7x gearboxes not counting the 1969 GTS's that has them. One of them - a 901/72 one 9282101 was on the Trans Am car 11810429 (attached). I am not sure if all of the kardexes I have list the type number as a /7x one for the 928 series or not without checking though
I agree that they are not in the little spec book for 1968 though
Last edited by HughH; 01-18-2020 at 09:21 PM.
Hugh Hodges
73 911E
Melbourne Australia
Foundation Member #005
Australian TYP901 Register Inc.
Early S Registry #776