New SWB Taillights and Turn Signals from Porsche Classic

[LiveFromNY]

I'd argue that it really doesn't cost more to get it right. But it does. It takes more research, more molds more comparisons.

I agree it would cost more to get it right. But I'd also argue that it would have cost nothing to get it CLOSER. They didn't save any money by using the incorrect fonts.

Good for you on the '72 lenses. One of the first things I look at on original cars. Yes, I have issues. Glad I'm not alone.

[preS]

I agree it would cost more to get it right. But I'd also argue that it would have cost nothing to get it CLOSER. They didn't save any money by using the incorrect fonts.

Good for you on the '72 lenses. One of the first things I look at on original cars. Yes, I have issues. Glad I'm not alone.

I agree w you on the first part.

On the second comment I just wonder how it works in your (and persons thinking alike) mind. What if an original car has a (or 2) later lens and the owner cares a little less since there will always be something on an used or restored car. Where does one stop re. originality if you are not entering for a concours judgement.

Richard

[NorthernThrux]

I agree it would cost more to get it right. But I'd also argue that it would have cost nothing to get it CLOSER. They didn't save any money by using the incorrect fonts.

Good for you on the '72 lenses. One of the first things I look at on original cars. Yes, I have issues. Glad I'm not alone.

Agreed. They could have got the font right. In fact they could have got virtually everything right with modern technology. We have a 3D laser capture system in the lab that is good to 10 microns. I could 3D scan a lens and 3D print it on our polycarbonate printer for about $20 bucks in parts and $400 of my time. But then it has to be tinted. And the edges have to be chromed or painted. But it would be perfect, right down to any surface scratches on the original. Porsche doesn't pay it's employees what I make on a hourly basis, so surely this was an option for a company that can make something like the Taycan. Ditto for metal. We can 3D print hip-joints and rods and stuff that are certified to go into humans (titanium). Surely Porsche can do that too (although it is more expensive than making a mold). They could 3D scan old parts, make molds and make new parts using modern technology. I think it's cost effective. And they would be done right. It really is not rocket science to get many things 99% correct.

Richard is also right in that no restoration is perfect. There's always something small or big (like my rear slam panel) that's not right. Even an original car that was dealer serviced will have something changed in all likelihood over the years unless it is like the 700 mile car. So where does "the sickness" stop? I'm not even entering in concours, I just wanted everything to be as close to right as possible. A personal (and financial) challenge, right down to the XWX tires.

Ravi

[Arne]

...right down to the XWX tires.

And those modern XWX tires, even ignoring the date codes, have additional lettering on them due to current regulations that the originals didn't have. They are still more period correct on the sidewall styling than any of the other tire options available (talking to you, Pirelli), but not exact. So where do you draw the line?

[NorthernThrux]

And those modern XWX tires, even ignoring the date codes, have additional lettering on them due to current regulations that the originals didn't have. They are still more period correct on the sidewall styling than any of the other tire options available (talking to you, Pirelli), but not exact. So where do you draw the line?

Not to mention they say "Made in Croatia" on them....unlike the originals...But when you look at the tread, all is forgiven ;-) It just feels right.

[LiveFromNY]

IOn the second comment I just wonder how it works in your (and persons thinking alike) mind. What if an original car has a (or 2) later lens and the owner cares a little less since there will always be something on an used or restored car. Where does one stop re. originality if you are not entering for a concours judgement.

Personally, I never stop and I've never entered a concours, but that's just me and everyone can draw their own line. Quite frankly, I just enjoy the chase and the satisfaction of getting the details exactly right, even if nobody will ever know but me.

That said, I also own a couple hot rods and am building another so I can see both sides of the equation.

[Peanut]

Thanks for putting all the effort into these lenses, Eric and JP. JP - Did you ever get a pair of rears? I agree that the color is disappointing if it's off. That's something that's noticeable from a distance, and more problematic for me than some of the other discrepancies.

Scott

[Soterik]

Thanks for putting all the effort into these lenses, Eric and JP. JP - Did you ever get a pair of rears? I agree that the color is disappointing if it's off. That's something that's noticeable from a distance, and more problematic for me than some of the other discrepancies.

Scott

I'm sending my rears to JP. My NOS rears have gone astray.... I've hidden them too well from myself. JP will then be able to review against his.

tks,
E

[Peanut]

Thank you both.

Scott

[70SATMan]

Yes, Back Sides Matter.



If you look closely, you can see one of the issues right away. For some reason, the entire back is covered with circles that are part of the casting. They're everywhere. Like these:



Why are they there? I can't see any reason for them. Of course, it quickly becomes obvious that Porsche didn't try all that hard to get the back sides right (NOS on the left and Porsche Classic on the right):


Lots of little differences. Can you spot the biggest one? How about in the photo below (NOS on the left and Porsche Classic on the right):



Yes, the oval is wrong, the "230" font is different, but look at the final digit of the part number. It appears to be screen-printed.

More screen printing on the 18W and the final digit of the Bosch part number:



Just very weird.

So, that's where we are.

Where are we?

OK, JP, you woke the geek beast. I spent some time dredging up pictures of original examples both "NOS" (whatever that means) and obviously not NOS originals. So, I have a a couple of thoughts for those to ponder. These are obviously my opinions based on my manufacturing experience and believing I am able to extrapolate methods and intentions from my observations..

Like I previously mentioned with the LWB housings, I have definitely seen differences in the original, supplied by Porsche SWB housings.

First, the "round circles" are the mold fill points and on the original parts, those are on the INSIDE of the housing. So, these are a function of HOW they are manufactured. Sure, someone could have decided to have the fill points inside the housing but, why? It would only add manufacturing processing to clean those up for plating. Easier to do on the backside where they are more accessible. Also, improves the interior light distribution so, who knows, this might be another NEEDED difference to meet current safety ratings.

I've seen early original housings without the pinwheels in the mold. So, should they be in these new molds or not??

I've seen obviously different molds wherein the "230" mark is of different sizes/placement within the oval. I've seen some marks go away and replaced with ink stamps. I've seen varying "weights" of the lettering in different molds. Im certain that if I spent even more time, I could probably document slightly different font styles.

The original housings molds left off the final digit in the part numbers on purpose and it looks to me like the last digits were hand stamped in. Same with the wattage numbers. This allowed Bosch the opportunity to cover different part numbers (markets) using the same base housing (lens, bulb use, wiring etc). So, like the mold fill points, hand stamping is time consuming and costly from a manufacturing standpoint. I actually believe those new units are laser etched and not silk screened by the look but, I could easily be wrong on that.

I remember a conversation with Eric over the excellent "Hella" lenses he created for his accessory light offerings. Obviously he couldn't create all of the different lenses that one can find for our early cars because Hella made minor changes over the years, different molds for different market offerings, different application of safety regulation markings. Heck, Hella even changed their logo from a single line font to double line font during the years the lights were offered for our cars.

So, Eric picked a moment in time and took a snapshot and produced a quality product. 99.5% perfect reproduction for some of our early cars, 98% perfect for others.

So, again we struggle to duplicate OE made parts for Porsche which spanned years and have differences because of OE manufacturing. We have 4-5 years of production (if not more) for the SWB units. Which year do we pick for reproduction?

Doesn't get them off the hook for the color of the lens or detailing the shape of housing better.

We happily apply the NOS tag to a part because it was originally bought through a Porsche parts distributor and lets face it, we use that term not only to describe originality but because it commands a premium price once applied. Yet, we somehow bless those differences in "NOS" parts. I'm thinking of buying a bunch of these up because they come directly from Porsche and they in turn will be NOS in no time, hahaha.

Good discussion.